At the risk of digressing into differences between higher end and "medium" level restaurants...I agree that if I'm shelling out $40 for dinner, I don't want to ruin the experience by packing my own left overs. On the other hand when I'm at a Cheesecake Factory-like place, I am much more likely to notice how busy the staff appears and whether or not the busser clearing the table seems trained or taught on the fly. Frankly the waitstaff who can' t seem to do two things at once, like notice I'd appreciate more water while dropping a check at the next table, is a candidate for mixing up my leftovers with someone else's.

I find all our varied attitudes about this quite interesting. All these years of eating in restaurants and we still have such different attitudes about our roles as customer and vendor. For me, as a customer, I expect prompt, attentive service, good food served at the peak of its preparation, and a clean fork between courses. (I so hate it when a waiter touches my fork, puts it on the table next to my plate, and then expects me to use it again!!)

As a vendor, I expect some patience from my customers. Clearly I can't honor their 7:30 reservation promptly at 7:30 when the 5:30 table is lingering 45 minutes longer than I'd expected. The late reservation wouldn't like being asked to leave why do they expect me to throw out the early reservation. I also expect the 5:30 people to NOTICE there are people waiting for their table.

As an employer, I expect my staff to have some brains and to remember their training. Restock the bus stand if it needs it. As an employee I expect my boss to provide the tools I need to do my job. Buy the darn bigger boxes and find a place to store them.

I should be in charge.

JeffB wrote:Well, since we are exchanging stories, I recently spent a lot of money at what some say is among Chicago's best steakhouses right now. The valet basically scraped the entire side of my car, which I noticed the next day and immediately brought to the establishment's attention. I know that valet services are independent contractors and such. However, the manager (who took 2 weeks and multiple calls to get back to me) acknowledged long-time, serious problems with the valet and said the hospitality group would be firing the company.

In the end, the message was, basically, take it up with the valet -- which I more or less expected. My concern, apart from the weeks it took for anyone to get back to me, is that the management knew it had a negligent (at best) valet service and knew that I (the guest) would have no reason to know that. I'm chalking it up to life in the big city. It's been a while since I've had something like that, whether it's vandalism, a parking ticket, etc.

PS, before you tell me, yeah, take it up with the valet I will let you know that I'm not naive. Valet services, parking garages, wrecking services, and similar businesses are not, as a matter of course, prone to give the "customer" the benefit of the doubt in such matters. It pays, in the long run, for them to stand firm on the status quo and force aggrieved car owners to avail themselves of the courts. Even someone for whom litigation is fun, free, and easy would realize that suing Acme Valet Company over a coupla hundred bucks in paint work makes no sense. Thus, Acme Valet's behavior is explained. On the other hand, the steakhouse should want to see me again, considering what little they know about me so far. Its behavior can be explained only by a disconnect between the company's best interests and its manager's slothful and misguided marshalling of resources.

That is fascinating.
I had a similar terrible steak house/valet experience.
My wife and I were crossing the street (a major street and we were crossing at the light with a walk signal) near one prime rib spot, when a valet swerved and made a right turn from the far left lane of traffic, crossing two other lanes and nearly killed us. I moved out of the way and pushed my wife or he would have run us both over.

We saw the valet pull up to the prime rib place, and so I immediately followed and complained to management. Response: Not our problem. Take it up with them.

I've haven't gone to that place since. If you are not going to take responsibility for the valet company, I doubt you are going to take responsibility for the chefs or the servers.

Bob S. wrote:Well, despite Jim's prognostication, I've taken leftovers home from a restaurant maybe once or twice in my life and can't imagine ever doing so again. ... I just try not to order more than I can eat. Restaurants with portion sizes that seem designed for leftovers kinda piss me off, as does the occasional affectation of hurt when I say "no" to a waiter's inquiry. Food is an adjunct to the social experience of dining out for me.

Bob, interesting that you have been the only person to state this opinion so far. And I do agree with you. I've tried taking home leftovers and find that I just can't eat them later -- I don't know if it's a lack of attention span, or what, but I'd rather have something else later than leftovers. Maybe it's a result of having leftovers forced on me for so many years growing up... *smirk*

When my husband and I go out, I almost always turn down a doggy bag, mainly because it never gets eaten. Sometimes, if we're on vacation or somewhere in an area with a lot of folks on the street (homeless people), I will take leftovers and offer them to people asking for money. Most of the time, I find people who will gladly take them. It makes me feel better that I'm not throwing out good food, but I'm not going to delude myself into thinking that *I'll* eat it later.

Bob S. wrote:I will admit that I've been tempted, should I return to Moto, to ask, "I'm sorry, I just can't finish this frozen carrot puree globe -- could I get some frozen nitrogen so I can enjoy it tomorrow?"

This had me rolling. I don't think I could do that, but that is just fantastic.

I will say this thread has actually changed my mind about something. (Imagine that!) I have extended family members who insist on "boxing their own" at the end of a meal in a casual restaurant. I always hated this, partly because of a snobbish feeling that it's "uncouth," but I think more because it is a very confrontational signal of distrust! And that makes me uncomfortable. I mean, you're pretty much outright saying to the waitperson, "I don't think you're capable of doing this." And that embarrasses me. However, after reading about people going home with other customers' leftovers, I'll never find fault with my family members for this practice again.

(I still think it's inappropriate in a fine restaurant, though.)

Speaking of things some members of my family do that I hate: Following the waitperson around at the end of the meal to hand them the cash tip, rather than leaving it on the table. It seems so crass to me! And, like the self-boxing, it's a confrontational signal of distrust, except in this case it's distrust of one's fellow patrons, or of the bussing staff (or so it seems to me). The clear signal is, "If I leave this tip on the table (as etiquette dictates), God knows if it's ever going to find its way into the rightful hands!" My family members will even try to do this when I'm leaving the tip, but I keep my eye on it and make sure it stays on the table until all of them have got up and gone. It's a clash of wills, but one I refuse to lose.

The clear signal is, "If I leave this tip on the table (as etiquette dictates), God knows if it's ever going to find its way into the rightful hands!" My family members will even try to do this when I'm leaving the tip, but I keep my eye on it and make sure it stays on the table until all of them have got up and gone. It's a clash of wills, but one I refuse to lose.

My Grandfather never left more than a 10% tip. While he very slowly made his way out the restaurant with other family. I'd go back to the table to adjust the tip up. Fortunately he was so slow moving toward the end of his life, there was no chance he would catch me in the act. If he had, then it would have been the clash of the titans!

Regards,

When I was a kid eating out with my parents, my dad would wait for my mom to get up to leave to make sure she didn't augment his miserly tip behind his back. He would even recount the tip to make sure. My mom would always slip me a couple of extra bucks under the table. I was always the last one to stand up to leave and would sneak the bills under my plate on the way out.

That is fascinating.
I had a similar terrible steak house/valet experience.
My wife and I were crossing the street (a major street and we were crossing at the light with a walk signal) near one prime rib spot, when a valet swerved and made a right turn from the far left lane of traffic, crossing two other lanes and nearly killed us. I moved out of the way and pushed my wife or he would have run us both over.

We saw the valet pull up to the prime rib place, and so I immediately followed and complained to management. Response: Not our problem. Take it up with them.

I've haven't gone to that place since. If you are not going to take responsibility for the valet company, I doubt you are going to take responsibility for the chefs or the servers.

Excellent point. Restaurant managers sometimes don't realize that customers don't make the same distinctions they do, and if they want to provide good service, they have to realize how we -- the customers -- think. We don't care if the valet is a separate company. There is no valet management on site, so we take up our problem with the only management around, the restaurant.

Similarly, how many times have you had a problem getting your waiter in a restaurant, so you ask another one for help (even for a glass of water...) and they respond that they'll get your server to come by, since your table isn't in their area. What?? Just pass along my request to my server. I shouldn't have to repeat my request.[/quote]

Not only that, we don't HAVE to make those distinctions. We're the guests, if someone working for them messes up, they should fix it.

"You don't like your steak? Here's the number for Allen Brothers, see if they'll give you your money back."

Mike G wrote:Not only that, we don't HAVE to make those distinctions. We're the guests, if someone working for them messes up, they should fix it.

Mike,

The one and only time I've had a problem with a valet service was at Merlo on Lincoln Ave and it was handled with courtesy and grace by Stefano, manager and son of the owners. Ellen had dinner at Merlo with friends, used the valet service and received a parking ticket for the exact time she was in the restaurant.

I brought this to Stefano's attention, faxed him a copy of the ticket, and he promptly send me a check for $25 to cover the cost of the ticket. This is a restaurant to love, wonderful pasta and courteous interaction with customers.

Enjoy,
Gary

Merlo
2638 N Lincoln Ave
Chicago, IL. 60614
773-529-0747

I must ask.. how good would a microwaved, day old steak be, anyways...?

jonjonjon wrote:I must ask.. how good would a microwaved, day old steak be, anyways...?

I usually eat leftover steak at room temperature, sliced up on a sandwich. Then there was the leftover 50% of the $57 dry-aged steak I had recently in New Orleans that survived the night in my hotel room refrigerator but was donated the next day to the bellman's chihuahua (I'll bet that 12 oz of prime beef fed the little fella for a week).

Yeah, on a sandwich with some barbecue sauce, or horseradish, or something, pretty damn good.

As itself, reheated, not so good.

Darren72 wrote:

Excellent point. Restaurant managers sometimes don't realize that customers don't make the same distinctions they do, and if they want to provide good service, they have to realize how we -- the customers -- think. We don't care if the valet is a separate company. There is no valet management on site, so we take up our problem with the only management around, the restaurant.

I'm happy to hear about Gary's good experience with the Merlo management--it reinforces my good opinion of Merlo--but my "intuition" (uninformed, but there you have it) is that many valet companies are owned by the same sorts of rough customers that we assume to own towing companies and repo companies. In other words, folks whom restaurateurs need to do business with, but don't enjoy dealing with any more than anybody else does. So when a problem comes up between a patron and the valet service, the restaurateur would just as soon lose the patron as "get into it" with the valet company. This would explain why restaurants so often take the laissez-faire attitude they do toward valet problems. I'm sure they do realize it's a customer-relations problem. Just one they feel their best interests, when all is said and done, lie on the side of not solving.

riddlemay wrote:

Darren72 wrote:

Excellent point. Restaurant managers sometimes don't realize that customers don't make the same distinctions they do, and if they want to provide good service, they have to realize how we -- the customers -- think. We don't care if the valet is a separate company. There is no valet management on site, so we take up our problem with the only management around, the restaurant.

I'm happy to hear about Gary's good experience with the Merlo management--it reinforces my good opinion of Merlo--but my "intuition" (uninformed, but there you have it) is that many valet companies are owned by the same sorts of rough customers that we assume to own towing companies and repo companies. In other words, folks whom restaurateurs need to do business with, but don't enjoy dealing with any more than anybody else does. So when a problem comes up between a patron and the valet service, the restaurateur would just as soon lose the patron as "get into it" with the valet company. This would explain why restaurants so often take the laissez-faire attitude they do toward valet problems. I'm sure they do realize it's a customer-relations problem. Just one they feel their best interests, when all is said and done, lie on the side of not solving.

Pardon my French, but BULLSHIT. The restaurants have contracts with their valet parkers. I've never read one, but I'm going to bet it does not include a "F*** You" clause. There must be some sort of assignment/assumption of liability in these agreements. No rational restaurant owner would enter into an agreement with a parker that didn't make clear the parker was liable for damage it caused to customers' vehicles, unless maybe they ARE getting the "squeeze." But I'd prefer some proof rather than vacant-minded speculation on the matter.

JimInLoganSquare wrote:I'd prefer some proof rather than vacant-minded speculation on the matter.

I'd prefer proof, too, but vacant-minded speculation is all I have to offer at the moment.

riddlemay wrote:I'd prefer proof, too, but vacant-minded speculation is all I have to offer at the moment.

I nominate this for Best Post Ever on LTHForum.

I don't care who runs the valet service. Nothing is going to prevent the restaurant from taking care of the customer (or potential customer).

When I walked into the prime rib location mentioned after having been almost killed [I'm not exaggerating -- if I didn't move immediately and pull my wife with me, the valet would have hit us both], I expected management to at least give me a polite line of B.S.: "Are you O.K? Can we seek medical care for you? We are so sorry. We will take it up with the valets immediately!"

Instead, the prime rib place literally told us "They are an independent contractor. Not our problem." We then stood outside while the valet service promised to get a manager to the location (never came of course). Duirng that 15 minutes, a glass of water from the restaurant management would have been nice.

The result was that last summer when they had some equipment problems that made the news, I laughed and thought the bad publicity couldn't come to more deserving people.

Last May I had lunch with some friends at Fogo de Chao. I valet parked and a few weeks later received a parking ticket in the mail. I had paid for the meal by credit card so I had evidence that I was eating when the ticket was issued. To their credit, I never needed to mention or produce my backup. The restaurant manager simply asked me to fax a copy of the ticket. He called me back and said I should hear from the valet company and asked me to call back if I did not. The valet company called the next day, again I faxed a copy of the ticket and 1 week later received a check from the valet company. I was suprised at how civilized the whole process was.

jonjonjon wrote:I must ask.. how good would a microwaved, day old steak be, anyways...?

Hmmm, I can't answer that directly, not owning or ever having used a microwave oven, but a properly cooked steak left over is delicious, if not quite as gloriously so as it originally was. I slice it thin, typically do not reheat it in any way, and, like JimILS, eat it in a sandwich or alongside a salad. It makes for an exceedingly nice lunch or light supper. There are other, more imaginative ways to use left-over steak that I occasionally employ but the two aforementioned options are for me hard to resist.

Antonius

jonjonjon wrote:I must ask.. how good would a microwaved, day old steak be, anyways...?

I'm no longer much of a steak eater, but when I was...warmed in a pan with some garlic butter, then eaten an open-faced sandwich with a toasted piece of crusty bread (with more garlic butter drizzled over it). Mmm...it almost me wish I had leftover stead around the house more often.

I fall in the camp of those who believe that a microwave oven is incapable of cooking in any respectable sense of the term but capable of being used as well as any other tool for forms of extremely convenient heating when you know how to use it properly. And actually, reheating steak for a sandwich is something it can do perfectly well.

Slice the steak into pieces, fan them around a plate (so there aren't pieces in the middle and others on the outside; the middle ones would still be cold while the outer ones will be getting overcooked) and, most importantly, hit a very short amount of time (30 seconds, perhaps) and keep an eye on it for even that space of time. Take the meat out before it loses its pinkish color; if it has hot spots and cold spots, you can either rotate it on the plate and zap it a little more, or simply bunch it back together and let the heat distribute through the meat a little more evenly while you prepare the bread. The object here is not to have hot steak so much as warmed, limbered-up steak that's pleasurable to chew, so the overall point is, use a gentle hand with it.

(Harold McGee explained some interesting stuff about how microwaves work when he was on Fresh Air.)

Ok, maybe I just keep it too simple, but a couple of thoughts...

Cutting it up and then heating it in the mvave is an invitation to dry it out. The more exposed meat the drier it gets.

MWaving the meat on an open plate "cooks" it. Cover it with plastic wrap and it then basically just heats it...and more uniformly to boot.

So...I just slap the piece of leftover meat on a plate, cover it with plastic wrap and warm it to the desired level. Let it sit a couple of minutes, unwrap and enjoy. Chances are that the process will even give you some good juices on the plate as well!

Well, as I say I don't cook it long enough to cook it... but that said, you're right, the covering and sitting would accomplish the goal of allowing the heat to distribute more evenly, and is a good idea.

Mike G wrote:I fall in the camp of those who believe that a microwave oven is incapable of cooking in any respectable sense of the term but capable of being used as well as any other tool for forms of extremely convenient heating when you know how to use it properly. And actually, reheating steak for a sandwich is something it can do perfectly well.

I take issue with the first statement -- a microwave makes a perfectly respectable steamer -- but I'll agree that reheating a steak is something it does very well, in fact, better than any conventional method.

Evil Ronnie wrote:Got home. Went into kitchen to admire midnight snack. The $38 or so dollar strip didn't make it into the package at all. No midnight snack. The rib bone and attached meat was not the same one we had earlier

Evil,

Sure hope it wasn't Smith and Wollensky*. Ellen went with a group last evening, brought home a goodly portion of perfectly rare, crusty on the outside dry-age bone-in rib-eye. Right about midnight I stood at the kitchen counter, sharp paring knife in hand, thinly slicing tender beefy bite after bite.

Sprinkle of coarse sea salt and I was in leftover heaven.

Enjoy,
Gary

*