A Chicago itinerary from heck.

Hey LTHers! Here by invitation of Mike G.--Mike, thanks for the tip.

We've set up the following itinerary for our week in the Chicago area:

Monday night: Paizanos. 864 N. State (the best Chicago-style pizza?)
Tuesday night: Avenues (as good as they say?)
Wednesday night: Alinea (worth the hype?)
Thursday night: Everest (concierge at hotel recommendation...good?)
Friday night: Rosebud Steak House (the best Chicago-area steak?).
Saturday night: Moto (worth the weirdness?)
Sunday night: Japonais (any other Asian food we should do instead?)

NOTES: Yes, we have all these reservations! But I don't mind canceling, it's still a few weeks. Yes, this is on the company expense account, mostly, so we don't mind spending money.

OUR BIG QUESTION: This is our first time in Chicago, and you may notice all of these are for NIGHTS. We have no idea what to do for lunch, and we're eager to try all that makes Chicago a great food city. WHAT ARE WE MISSING? Should we drop one of the giant multi-course spend-a-lot places in favor of something else?

THINGS WE LIKE NOT ON THE LIST: I love great BBQ--is there a place for food to feed the soul we mustn't list? What about Chicago staples like hot dogs? We love it all, there is no food off our list (except maybe Mexican--just not my style).

What do you think? Thanks for the help!

--Peter Wells and Gary Burke

Burke and Wells wrote:Paizanos. 864 N. State (the best Chicago-style pizza?)

An utterly loaded question. It's a religious controversy, but the short answer is no. As to whether you should go to Pizano's anyway depends on what other Chicago-style pizza you've tried. Since you haven't been here before, I'd suggest starting at the birthplace of it all, Uno on Ohio, or its sister, Due.

My personal favorite, about which others here disagree strongly, is Edwardo's stuffed pizza.

Thursday night: Everest (concierge at hotel recommendation...good?)

You'll find differences of opinion here on Everest. Joho's Alsatian-influenced French isn't for everyone, mixing, as it does, whimsy, Old World inspiration and American ingredients. If an amuse-bouche of velvety cauliflower fondant topped with caviar and a sprig of dill served on a long-handled spoon strikes you as a silly opener for sea bass wrapped in thin slices of crisply roasted potato or pot au feu of beef tenderloin with horseradish cream, then it's not for you. I like it very much.

Friday night: Rosebud Steak House (the best Chicago-area steak?).

No. That, I think you'll find agreement on. Where you should go instead might be more of an issue. Our current darling is David Burke's Primehouse. That's probably the single best steak, considered strictly as meat, being served in Chicago right now.

However, if you want a more homegrown Chicago steakhouse experience, you might try N9ne, Gene & Georgetti, the Chicago Chop House, Stetson's, Harry Caray's, or Carmichael's, depending on what you're looking for. N9ne is the hippest. Gene & Georgetti the oldest -- very authentic, with irascible service, to boot. The Chop House is the tourists' fave, but many locals like it, too -- its boneless NY strip steak is often voted No. 1. I'm a fan of the signature Chop House prime rib, a kind of cross between a rib steak and the traditional roast beef -- it's first roasted, then grilled -- excellent.

Stetson's is an entirely underrated spot in the Hyatt hotel serving dry-aged beef. Harry Caray's would be my choice for the Italian steakhouse option in lieu of Rosebud (it's also a great place to try a Chicago staple I hardly dare name here: chicken Vesuvio). Carmichael's is just a comfortable place with a Chicago vibe, a terrific outdoor courtyard, good steaks (though not great ones -- they're choice, not prime), and very nice shrimp de Jonghe, to name another not-to-be-missed Chicago-born dish.

Sunday night: Japonais (any other Asian food we should do instead?)

That depends on whether you're looking for a frou-frou saketini evening with the scenesters or solid Asian fare. Japonais does excellent saketinis and some of their cooked food, such as the maple-leaf smoked duck, is very good, but it's not where I'd go if I were looking for sushi or real Japanese cuisine. Tell us more about what you're looking for or do searches here.

I love great BBQ--is there a place for food to feed the soul we mustn't list?

Another religious question, which also depends on your transportation, how much comfort you want (do you mind eating in your car?) and what you think of as "barbecue." A search for "barbecue" or "ribs" here will find many of this board's controversies.

What about Chicago staples like hot dogs? We love it all, there is no food off our list (except maybe Mexican--just not my style).

Too bad about Mexican. It's one of Chicago's best things. I suppose that means Puerto Rican is out, too, so you won't want a jibarito.

We have very good Korean and Polish. Depending on where you're living nowadays and what's available there, you might want to check out Greektown or Chinatown or one one the many Thai places discussed here. As I recall, you were last in Boston, so you might want to skip Italian -- but we have very good Italian, too.

For hot dogs, there are myriad options; tell us where you're staying or hanging and we can make pertinent recommendations. You should also try some Italian beef. The board favorite is in the Western suburbs, but Al's on Taylor is very good, and then you can cross the street for Italian lemonade at Mario's.

Pizzeria Uno
312/321-1000 www.unos.com
29 E. Ohio St., Chicago

Pizzeria Due
312/943-2400
619 N. Wabash Ave., Chicago

Edwardo's Natural Pizza
www.edwardos.com
1212 N. Dearborn St., Chicago, 312/337-4490
521 S. Dearborn St., Chicago, 312/939-3366
(and other locations)

Everest
312/663-8920 www.brasseriejo.com
One Financial Plaza, 440 S. LaSalle St., 40th Floor, Chicago

David Burke's Primehouse
312/660-6000 www.brguestsrestaurants.com/restaurants/primehouse
James Hotel, 616 N. Rush St., Chicago

N9ne
312/575-9900 www.n9ne.com
Randolph Place, 440 W. Randolph St., Chicago

Gene & Georgetti
312/527-3718 www.geneandgeorgetti.com
500 N. Franklin St., Chicago

Chicago Chop House
312/787-7100 www.chicagochophouse.com
60 W. Ontario St., Chicago

Stetson's Steak & Chop House
312/565-1234 www.stetsonschophouse.com
Hyatt Regency Chicago, 151 E. Wacker Drive, Chicago

Harry Caray's
312/828-0966 www.harrycarays.com
33 W. Kinzie St., Chicago

Carmichael's Chicago Steak House
312/433-0025 www.carmichaelsteakhouse.com
1052 W. Monroe St., Chicago

Al's No. 1 Italian Beef
312/226-4017 www.alsno1italianbeef.com
1079 W. Taylor St., Chicago IL 60607

Mario's Italian Lemonade
1068 W. Taylor St.
Chicago, IL 60607

Searching on these places will bring you a wealth of information.

Finally, my all-purpose, nonfood advice to anyone visiting Chicago for whatever reason: See an off-Loop play.

LAZ gives you a good start. Another place to start, probably the best place to start on this forum is the Great Neighborhood Restaurant Awards sub-board. Honestly, not every place on that list is best in class, but as a collection of meaningful or special places, it cannot be missed. They are the places we hold dear.

The question I ask anyone with a vast question like yours: car? With your list, all but Alinea are near the downtown hotels, and Alinea is not that far off, but if you wanna start getting into our lists, you need transport, either public or private. Chicago is a very big city and a lot of the most interesting eating is spread out. If you were really looking for the certain things, like hot dogs and italian beef, you may even want to hit the suburbs (!)

OK, here's some off the top of my head thoughts/ideas:

It's warm, there is nothing more divine than having a car hop bring you a whoopercheesie and superdawg from Superdawg.

Just as atmospheric, but way different, you should try the two open air Maxwell Street Polish stands near the corner of Roosevelt and Union (a block east of Halsted). Get the ReneG cycle, ie. one of each.

Chicago, especially Chicago's south suburbs, has some fantastic VERY old fashioned and traditional ice cream parlors. Cunis, Gayety, Cupids, Mitchell's, Margies are worth visits to keep you occupied during the day.

I love our Thai restaurants, and I love that we have Erik M to guide us. Let them guide you to various local treats (but especially Spoon Thai, my favorite).

I'm no expert on any of the serious places you have set fourth. I would keep the three avante garde, Alinea, Moto and Avenues, but as another choice, me, I might try either Bayless's Toplompampo or Spiaggia to see if you agree that ethnic can also be done at the 4 star level. Also, I might toss in yesterday's avante garde, Charlie Trotter, to see how he stacks up these days.

As you will hear from everyone, search these boards for the details.

Rob

Into upscale, why not Schwa?

Schwa
1466 N. Ashland
773-252-1466
BYOB

You could certainly try Schwa, but when I called 3 weeks ago, they were pretty much booked through August.

Vital Information is right, you should start by looking through the Great Neighborhood Restaurants board, which is surely as good a collection of Chicago's best modest, workaday places (with a few ringers like Moto thrown in) as exists anywhere. It's a flavorful introduction to Chicago, to be sure. (Interestingly, there's still no deep dish pizza place on the list. No one seems to want to touch that third rail...)

I have to admit that the idea of Alinea, Avenues and Moto in the same week is one of those things where too much heaven starts to seem like hell. I wouldn't try to tell you which to choose, there are plenty of reviews here, but personally I'd swap one or two out for a more casual yet equally accomplished place like Blackbird or North Pond (the latter is, okay, a notch down in food from the top top, but only one, and has a wonderful historic setting in an old Arts & Crafts-era park district building).

If I were trying to pick places that offer something you can't get in every other major urban center in America, I'd look hard at dinner at Topolobampo or lunch at its sibling Frontera Grill. Admittedly, both elicit mixed reports about consistency, and admittedly you said no Mexican, but if you've been turned off by lousy burritos over a lifetime, then truly high quality artisanal Mexican is surely one answer. Another possibility, away from downtown, is Fonda del Mar, open for lunch Thursday through Sunday and dinner nightly.

On the same basis, I would make a visit to Avec, Blackbird's sibling, which serves the most interesting and high quality (even artisanal) bar food in town, or maybe America; there's nothing else like it.

And one of the glories of the city, and of this board's efforts to uncover them, is Chicago's Thai food. There are many posts on Spoon Thai, in particular Erik M.'s explication of Thai-language items (though many of us have written and posted pics with equal enthusiasm if not his depth of knowledge).

I also believe that Alinea, Avenues, Moto and Everest, all in one week, might be a little too much, but they are all amazing. My first choice is Alinea, but barely ahead of Avenues and then Moto. The hard part might be doing Avenues and Alinea in consecutive nights. Check out Alan Richman's recent article for a little more on each of these spots: Alan Richman's GQ article.

I agree with Mike G. that Avec is a spot you should not miss, and it's the perfect spot the night after a long, high end meal. But if you want a bit more comfort and larger plates, try its sister restaurant Blackbird. You won't find much better food in Chicago.

Schwa would offer excellent and creative cuisine, but again, you might not be able to get a reservation. It's tiny, it's byo and with a corkage fee of $5 per table and lots of good press, it's become hard to get in the door.

As for Pizza, I know everyone talks about the good old standbys -- Uno's and Due's -- and I agree that Uno's quality is far better than that of the franchises -- but I still believe they are tourist traps. Pizano's and Lou Malnati's serve the best deep dish pizza in Chicago (IMO, of course). They're essentially the same places (members of the Malnati family own both). Order the butter crust with your pizza, and if you don't want a huge sausage patty on the pizza, make sure to ask for it crumbled (if they don't ask you first).

Spoon Thai is fantastic and it's easily accessible by both car (lots of free parking in the area) and "L" (Brown Line stop at Western Avenue - then practically across the street).

As for hot dogs, I'd say don't miss Hot Doug's. You can try the standard Chicago dog or a great corn dog, but there's much, much more here and make sure to try it -- just the other day I enjoyed an incredible smoked Alligator sausage and a foie gras-sauternes duck sausage. And the duck fat fries on Friday and Saturday (closed Sunday) are fantastic. Check out Hot Doug's for their weekly specials and also see what others on this forum think of it: LTH thoughts on Hot Doug's.

Ribs - avoid Twin Anchors. Honey 1 is great, and assuming you're coming from downtown it's easy to get to, by car or by "L." Check out what everyone on this board has said: Honey 1. I think the ribs and the rib tips are the way to go. The pulled pork has good flavor, but it is a very small portion. And just don't go here expecting an interesting decor (think hospital waiting room).

Some other things I would recommend would include: a trip to Fox & Obel (similar to a Dean & DeLuca) for sandwiches, salads or pastries; a walk on Devon Avenue for some fantastic Indian or Pakistani food. One thing that makes Chicago fantastic are the many cultural hubs. And you can check out the Swedish Bakery in Andersonville for great pastries.

I think Chicago has some great breakfast spots that offer very creative fare, which might appeal to you. My favorites are Orange, Bongo Room, Over Easy and M. Henry. Any of these would make a nice late breakfast or lunch too.

Most of all, enjoy your trip to Chicago.

These are *stellar* replies, I can't thank you enough!

Yes, I suspected our itinerary was overbalanced. The concierge who built it for us seems to have gone for all ringers. I suppose at least one of the "monsters" has to go. I suppose Avenues will get cut. I want to try Alinea, and Moto sounds like too much fun to miss. I so fondly remember trips to Strasbourg that I can't say no to a place like Everest, with an Alsatian flair.

It does seem that Rosebud Steakhouse was a bum steer (couldn't resist). I'll poke around for reservations at one of the other places.

NOW! To answer some questions that will help: YES, we will have our car! And drivers-side personal service would be a treat. We have absolutely no problems with heading out to the suburbs. Great food experiences are worth the drive. And yes, we want things that are great, surely, but also things that are quintessentially Chicago. We'll drive for them.

We're at two hotels: in the city, the Burnham, and then later in the week we're at the Wyndham Hotel in Rosemont, IL., near the airport. Ah, convention hotels, always so exalted.

You are all ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about our goals: we don't want tourist traps or saketinis. I'm definitely cancelling Japonais. When it comes to experiences in a great locale, I am never interested in "what is the best"--I'm interested in sampling representatives from all sides, so I can join in the debate! The true measure of enjoying a local scene is that the religious wars over the premier hot dog, pizza, Jewish deli, have meaning to you, even if you don't have the luxury of living there, sampling all and chosing a side.

It is in this spirit that I ask for recommendations. Thanks!

--Peter

While you're in Rosemont, I'd suggest a few inexpensive places (this is not the best area for fine dining).

Try a great Italian beef sandwich at Johnnie's (great Italian sausage too). Get onto 90W (the tollway) and exit at Arlington Heights Road, make a right, and it will be a few blocks ahead on your right on Arlington Heights Road. The beef is fantastic. Order it sweet or hot or both (green peppers vs. giardiniera), wet or dry. Good lemon ice too (get a small). It's less than a 15-minute drive from your hotel. Although I like the original location for its charm, this is closer.

For great burgers or charred dogs, head north on River Road (north from Higgins) and go to Paradise Pup (lunch only until around 4pm and outdoor seating only). It's only about a 5-minute drive. Head south on River from Higgins and you'll be at Gene & Judes -- more traditional Chicago dog -- no seating.

I so fondly remember trips to Strasbourg that I can't say no to a place like Everest, with an Alsatian flair.

You could do Jean Joho's Brasserie Jo instead, and get off with a lighter, shorter meal that night, saving your four-hour-dinner energies for one of the Alinea-Avenues-Moto monsters.

It might be useful to print out the Chicago Chow Map http://www.lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=388. It and discussions of it are located on the Useful Stuff section of the board. Also, if you plan to go to a Thai restaurant make sure that you take a copy of Erik M.'s translated Thai menus (although some places now have the translated menus available), which are also in the Useful Stuff section.

Aim for a mix of the high-end and the ethnic/streetfood and you won't go wrong.

We just came back from a week's trip, and with must have lunches a few times, I ended up not eating much dinner at the must eat dinner places. Pace yourself...

Out of curiosity, do you guys know anything about Australian history? Like Burke and Wills/

I expect they've heard more about Burke and Hare.

So what are you doing for lunch all week?

With all the heavy hitters scheduled for evenings, lunch might provide the opportunity to hit some neighborhood storefronts and sample bits and bites that don't quite rate a dinner slot. E.g., Middle Eastern on N. Kedzie, Vietnamese in Uptown on Argyle and environs, upscale/regional Mexican, Korean BBQ, etc. Search the board with these key words for various informative and entertaining threads on all these cuisines and neighborhoods.

And of course, report back. Preferably day-by-day.

Hey Leek,

Can you say what must-have lunches you must-had?

Thanks!

--Peter

We get the Burke and Willis a lot, but it's purely coincidental, I assure you.

--Peter

Burke and Wells wrote:Hey Leek,

Can you say what must-have lunches you must-had?

Ha!

Salumi in Seattle, for one, and mussels in Penn Cove. We were in Portland, Port Angeles and Seattle for a week. I recapped them:

http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8216&highlight=

http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=8700&highlight=

http://lthforum.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=4371&highlight=

(not, I suppose, exactly what you were looking for

Has anyone told you to have lunch at Manny's?

Have lunch at Manny's.

Manny's Coffee Shop & Deli
312/939-2855
www.mannysdeli.com
1141 S. Jefferson St.
Chicago