obvious observations re: ethnic markets/vs. others

Maesri canned curries @ virtually any Argyle/Broadway market: .79 to a buck a can.

Same product @ Fox n Obel: 3.79 per can

---

small commercial jar of asafoetida at The Spice House on Wells? nearly 4 bucks.

same jar @ Patel Bros. on Devon? .79

Yeah -- pretty much anything at ethnic grocer is cheaper than at specialty store. Only downside I've discovered is that, sometimes, at the ethnic store, there is at least a year's worth of dust on the products. So look for stuff that doesn't look like it's from an archaeological dig, and you can get some great bargains.

Cynthia wrote:Yeah -- pretty much anything at ethnic grocer is cheaper than at specialty store. Only downside I've discovered is that, sometimes, at the ethnic store, there is at least a year's worth of dust on the products. So look for stuff that doesn't look like it's from an archaeological dig, and you can get some great bargains.

Well, this is true for any corner store, unfortunately. I always check expiration dates whether in Jewel or Thai Grocer.

I'd just like to point out that any Jewel would LOVE to be as tidy as Patel Bros.

Cafe Du Monde coffee at Tai Nam Market or elsewhere on Argyle--$3.99

Same at Whole Foods on Ashland--$6.99

Christopher Gordon wrote:

Cynthia wrote:Yeah -- pretty much anything at ethnic grocer is cheaper than at specialty store. Only downside I've discovered is that, sometimes, at the ethnic store, there is at least a year's worth of dust on the products. So look for stuff that doesn't look like it's from an archaeological dig, and you can get some great bargains.

Well, this is true for any corner store, unfortunately. I always check expiration dates whether in Jewel or Thai Grocer.

Indeed. But my point was that, at least at the more expensive places, such as the Spice House, one can be certain that the food is not a generation old. Now, whether you want to spend more money for that reassurance is another thing. I am generally willing to pay more for some things, say herbs and spices at the Spice House, simply because I know that they will be fresh. But for packaged curries, sure, if there is a date I can check, I'll always opt for the ethnic store -- or Trader Joe's.

Mike G wrote:I'd just like to point out that any Jewel would LOVE to be as tidy as Patel Bros.

Maybe this is a suburb/city thing. I've been to Patel Brothers on a number of occasions, and I love it, but it's not any tidier than my local Jewel.

HI,

I once ran out of Hoisin sauce, I bought an 8 ounce jar for roughly $3. at Sunset Foods in Highland Park. I could buy a gallon tin of Hoisin sauce in Chinatown for $6, which I would share with my friends.

Regards,

Cynthia wrote:

Christopher Gordon wrote:

Cynthia wrote:Yeah -- pretty much anything at ethnic grocer is cheaper than at specialty store. Only downside I've discovered is that, sometimes, at the ethnic store, there is at least a year's worth of dust on the products. So look for stuff that doesn't look like it's from an archaeological dig, and you can get some great bargains.

Well, this is true for any corner store, unfortunately. I always check expiration dates whether in Jewel or Thai Grocer.

Indeed. But my point was that, at least at the more expensive places, such as the Spice House, one can be certain that the food is not a generation old. Now, whether you want to spend more money for that reassurance is another thing. I am generally willing to pay more for some things, say herbs and spices at the Spice House, simply because I know that they will be fresh. But for packaged curries, sure, if there is a date I can check, I'll always opt for the ethnic store -- or Trader Joe's.

No slight implied against The Spice House. When I picked up my asafoetida there I assumed that was the going rate...I've never been displeased with the pricing at the store on Wells. I just found it amusing that, on a recent trip to Devon, the store(was it Patel Bros.? it was the dry goods market just down from the produce market with the giant green awning) had a floor to ceiling selection(woohoo...the *interesting* smell!) of asafoetida for between .79 and 1.50 for the same purveyor.

I love The Spice House. Just maybe not for Indian spices anymore. Same way I go to Uptown for SE Asian.

Doesn't the Spice House carry higher quality versions of some products, aside from differences in freshness?

Also, different stores "push" different things. I don't have the small ethnic stores in mind here, but rather Whole Foods, Jewel, etc. Many products are clearly more expensive at WF. But there are also other products that are cheaper at WF. Ok, so I can't think of anything off the top of my head...but my guess is that WF has relatively good prices for somethings to get people into the store.

Darren72 wrote:Doesn't the Spice House carry higher quality versions of some products, aside from differences in freshness?

Also, different stores "push" different things. I don't have the small ethnic stores in mind here, but rather Whole Foods, Jewel, etc. Many products are clearly more expensive at WF. But there are also other products that are cheaper at WF. Ok, so I can't think of anything off the top of my head...but my guess is that WF has relatively good prices for somethings to get people into the store.

The asafoetida(yellow jar) that The Spice House carries is obviously not a purveyor cultivated exclusively by the Penzey's/Spice House connexion; same way they don't contract a house pomegranate syrup.

On Devon you will find yellow plastic and white plastic jars of the very same asafoetida for much lower prices. I was surprised; I've always found The Spice House to be good to great quality for relatively low price. I'm sure they don't have as much of a demand for asafoetida as whatever store on Devon...hence the price...but, my word!...that's a BIG mark-up. .79 to nearly 4 bucks. The train/bus ride alone from where I'm at to Devon + point-of-purchase is cheaper altogether.

And, I'd also be using that CTA fare to make multiple purchases along the strip.

Only downside I've discovered is that, sometimes, at the ethnic store, there is at least a year's worth of dust on the products.

Actually, I've had precisely the opposite problem. At Patel Brothers--to pick an ethnic market at random--I find the turnover is much higher than at non-specialty markets. I can't imagine that The Spice House--again, to pick a place at random (no slight intended)--sells anywhere near the volume of something like asafoetida that Patel does. And I have had this same experience in a variety of places. Which is not to suggest it isn't wise to check the dates and the dust...just my two cents.

Cynthia wrote:

Mike G wrote:I'd just like to point out that any Jewel would LOVE to be as tidy as Patel Bros.

Maybe this is a suburb/city thing. I've been to Patel Brothers on a number of occasions, and I love it, but it's not any tidier than my local Jewel.

It IS a suburb/city thing. Jewel stores in the suburbs are cleaner than those in the city. Always have been. That said, Jewel is really about the lousiest excuse for a grocery store chain in my experience (which, being from Indianapolis, means primarily Marsh and Kroger). An object lesson: 17 years ago there was a Jewel in Bloomington, Indiana, and it was the cleanest Jewel I ever set foot in. That said, it was still dimly lit, shabby looking, with shelves that were less well-stocked than the nearby Kroger store that was half its size. The Bloomington Jewel folded in 1990 and was taken over by Mr. D's, a local operation that was head and shoulders better than any Jewel, anywhere.

Let's face it, Jewel just sucks. They don't care about their customers or their competition, and that's why they are failing and losing out to newer, better competitors like Whole Foods and even Costco. And the independent "ethnic" grocers.

Christopher Gordon wrote:The asafoetida(yellow jar) that The Spice House carries is obviously not a purveyor cultivated exclusively by the Penzey's/Spice House connexion; same way they don't contract a house pomegranate syrup.

I didn't mean that product specifically. I was thinking more generally about Spice House products. Sorry for the confusion.

Jim, Jewel does indeed suck, but no more so than the California chains that purchased Jewel and Dominick's. For all that Chicago and LA have going on food-wise, the corner chain groceries are about as depressing as it gets. Try the Von's on Virgil and Sunset to get an early glimpse of perdition. And other places with a poverty of good food have better-than-average supermarkets. A Publix in Nowhere Florida or a Schnucks in Missouri, for example, will be pretty solid. But nothing's worse than run down Winn Dixie, or the incredibly crap King Sooper chain in Colorado. Now that I think about it, thank God for the large, well-stocked Mexican supermarkets with great produce, a kickass meat counter with real butchers, and a taqueria on every other corner in Chicago. Between those, Costco and some "ethnic" specialty stores, I have very little use for US chains, including Whole Foods.

JeffB wrote:I have very little use for US chains, including Whole Foods.

Jeff - Even Kroger? And are you familiar with Marsh? They just opened up a monster store in Naperville, their first outside Indiana -- while simultaneously almost going belly-up and, for the first time in 50 years, seeking a white knight to buy them out. Sad, that, but the point to be made here is that here is one U.S. (i.e., non-Hispanic white family from Yorktown, Indiana) that ran one hell of a grocery chain for two generations, and hopefully for a couple more. And Kroger ain't half bad, either. Although none of them can hold a candle to Wegman's

BTW - I learned last week from the BBQ Queen lecture that Kroger sells on their private label a hickory smoked salt. They had a sample to try. I can't wait to visit a Kroger to buy some as well as tour the premises.

Regards,

JimInLoganSquare wrote:lthough none of them can hold a candle to Wegman's

Boy, if Wegman's would open a Chicago store...I think the folks that see Whole Foods a symptom of what's wrong with food shopping still likely won't enjoy Wegman's. But I sure would. This is a store that has to be experienced to be appreciated.

I'd also be happy with a Chicago version of Fairway.

Cathy2 wrote:I can't wait to visit a Kroger to ... tour the premises.

Oh, you poor, benighted (native) Chicagoans, with your crappy Jewels and Dominicks that, sadly, are all you've ever known. The rest of the country, or at least the Midwest and as far south as Cincinnati (home of Kroger) has had the luxury of being able to take for advantage, for decades, a much higher caliber of grocery store as a base level for comparison (i.e., there may be some local stores that are significantly better, like O'Malia's in Indianapolis, and others that are significantly worse, like Aldi, but the base level of "acceptable" service, cleanliness and stock in a Marsh or Kroger is so far beyond what Jewel demands from its managers (or lets them get away with), that it's really almost laughable. Yes! Aisles can be wide enough to maneuver through. Yes! Employees can be knowledgable or, if not that, at least friendly and not have gang tatoos. Yes! You can have all that without the patina of snobbishness that overlays the Sunset Foods experience! Even after all these years, every time I enter a Jewel or Dominicks, I compare it (usually unfavorably) to my Marsh and Kroger memories.

Hi,

Hoping against hope, I went to the Kroger website to locate a store near Hammond, IN, they gave me:

FOOD 4 LESS - CHICAGO
5556 W. 159TH ST.
OAK FOREST, IL 60452
Store Phone: 708-535-0834

While it is not precisely a Kroger, it is part of the Kroger family of stores. Has anyone been? Do they carry Kroger private label items?

Regards,

Darren72 wrote:

JimInLoganSquare wrote:lthough none of them can hold a candle to Wegman's

Boy, if Wegman's would open a Chicago store...I think the folks that see Whole Foods a symptom of what's wrong with food shopping still likely won't enjoy Wegman's. But I sure would. This is a store that has to be experienced to be appreciated.

I'd also be happy with a Chicago version of Fairway.

For those who've never been to a Wegman's, try to imagine a store the size of a Meijer's (i.e., the size of a blimp hangar), but with every square foot filled with foods you'd actually enjoy having the opportunity to buy, staffed by people who are friendly, knowledgable and experienced, respectful of you and happy to have your business, and when it's time to leave, you find 25 or more checkout lanes ALL WITH CASHIERS RINGING, ALL THE TIME. Even if that means calling out managers to ring. You know, the way it used to be done when managers gave a crap about their customers. You literally don't wait in line more than 20 seconds, even if a world class ass is writing a check in front of you. That's Wegman's, and God, I wish one would open up here. But it's a family business, so it ain't gonna happen.

Hi,

I once went to Jungle Jim's outside of Cincinnati. I spent 2-3 hours walking up and down every aisle. My only disappointment: they were out of ostrich eggs, which are usually priced at $10. each.

If you have been to both Wegman's and Jungle Jim's, then how do you compare them?

Regards,

Cathy2 wrote:Hi,

I once went to Jungle Jim's outside of Cincinnati. I spent 2-3 hours walking up and down every aisle. My only disappointment: they were out of ostrich eggs, which are usually priced at $10. each.

If you have been to both Wegman's and Jungle Jim's, then how do you compare them?

Regards,

Never been to Jungle Jim's, but on Wednesdays, I think, Wegman's has ostrich eggs (large or extra large) at 2 for $14.98. Or at least that's how I recall it ...

The Food 4 Less in Evanston on Main St. carries Kroger private label stuff, and in general the prices are much better than Jewel/Dominick's. Combine that with a trip to the Sam's Club in the same shopping center, and you can get a lot of stuff at good prices.

Still, Marketplace on Oakton is my go-to store for most stuff (limited cleaning/paper/foil selections, though.

Several points:

1) The Marsh's in Naperville will be closing shortly as Marsh attempts to reorganize. They are losing money and finally have new management. Many in the industry believe that development to be positive. Good operator.

2) I guess that I have a very different impression of Kroger's. Sure, it IS my hometown grocery chain. Krogers and Delta Airlines are two monopolies (in the Cincinnati market) that milk the locals at every available chance. Highest prices around. I pay a fraction here in Chicago that my brother pays in Cincinnati.

As for the stores, the newly remodeled and new stores in Cincinnati are pretty decent. But for every GOOD Kroger's store that I have seen, I have seen half a dozen that look like Winn Dixie.

The SMART think that Krogers is doing is to adopt soem of the better marketing practices of Fred Meyers, the Northwestern chain that they aquired about a decade ago.

3) Cathy - if you are looking for the Kroger brands, you can get them at Ingles in Rockford. Do realize that Krogers makes a lot of different buying decisions in different markets. There is stuff that I can only get in Cincinnati. PLEASE call ahead. especially on the Food 4 Less franchise which I believe carries a lot fewer SKUs.

4) If you think the Jewel stores are bad, see some of the Albertson's "value concept" store out west. Explains the drop in market share.

5) Wegman's has no intention of moving west. Their immediate expansion plans - adopted somewhat reluctantly - is to move toward the DC and other Eastern markets. The family has no intention of taking their company public.

Yeah, I must admit that I'm a little surprised to see Kroger's being talked about as exemplary-- when it took over the local Kansas chain Dillon's it was widely regarded as having ruined it (certainly the more distinctive aspects of some of the stores-- Dillon's introduced Kansans to some weird-ass thing called sushi back in the 80s-- were killed off). But I do agree with JILS's comment that Chicago chain store produce is generally lamentable. But then heck, when I was growing up even Safeway was remarkably good, with a real butcher shop and butchers, decent deli food (it was right near the Temple and the Synagogue), etc.

All I can say is, when I moved to Chicago and first tried to shop at the long-gone Jewel near where Tower Records is now, I thought I had moved to the frickin' USSR. Aisles too tight to move your cart through, crappy produce, charging for bags with handles (not at Jewel but at other markets in Lincoln Park) in a city where everyone's going to be walking home with their purchases-- feh.

JimInLoganSquare wrote:For those who've never been to a Wegman's, try to imagine a store the size of a Meijer's (i.e., the size of a blimp hangar), but with every square foot filled with foods you'd actually enjoy having the opportunity to buy, staffed by people who are friendly, knowledgable and experienced, respectful of you and happy to have your business, and when it's time to leave, you find 25 or more checkout lanes ALL WITH CASHIERS RINGING, ALL THE TIME. Even if that means calling out managers to ring. You know, the way it used to be done when managers gave a crap about their customers. You literally don't wait in line more than 20 seconds, even if a world class ass is writing a check in front of you. That's Wegman's, and God, I wish one would open up here. But it's a family business, so it ain't gonna happen.

Just to add a little more about Wegman's:

They carry about 10-12 varieties of mushrooms. Most are not in styrofoam packages.

They carry black truffles.

When I lived in NJ, people would talk about having lunch at Wegman's or "hanging out" at the Wegman's. Like most of you, my reaction was that if your standards are low enough, of course you'd eat lunch at the grocery store. Then I tried it and was converted. Their pre-made food was actually very good. In Rochester, NY there is actually a separate Wegman's restaurant (which has a different name that escapes me).

I too am confused about this love for Kroeger. Having spent some time in Michigan, it never occured to me that the Kroger was anything special.

Mike G wrote: But I do agree with JILS's comment that Chicago chain store produce is generally lamentable. But then heck, when I was growing up even Safeway was remarkably good, with a real butcher shop and butchers, decent deli food (it was right near the Temple and the Synagogue), etc.

While I would agree with you about the quality of the chain store produce, at least here in Chicago, there are independents with good produce.

In St. Louis, Schnucks and Dierbergs do a good job.

In Cleveland, there is nothing. And don't point out the West Side Market as most of the pickin's produce wise are salvage from the wholesalers. There **might** be two or three vendors who hawk 1st rate produce.

Detroit/Windsor generally have better produce than Chicago due to the proximity of the farms of Southern Ontario. Also, there are a lot of great farm vendors at both the Eastern Market AND Windsor's Public Market (if you can find the new one after its displacement from the waterfront for casino construction).

Cincinnati is generally not very good although we always grew our own - 2 acres worth.

Darren72 wrote:I too am confused about this love for Kroeger. Having spent some time in Michigan, it never occured to me that the Kroger was anything special.

Kroger is a huge chain with a lot of variation among the stores, so your mileage may vary. Plus, if you'll look again at my post, I'm talking about Krogers at least 15 or more years ago; from what I'm reading here, they may have nose-dived since then. The Krogers in Bloomington, at the time I lived there, had a huge ethnic and health food section, in respect of its college student/prof clientele. And of course, my earlier memories of Kroger are from another era in grocery stores altogether, as a little kid in the late 1960s and 1970s; so maybe my memories of Kroger are simply unrepresentative of the current state of Kroger affairs. But I still doubt many of the Kroger outlets are are or ever were nearly as bad as the Jewel Mike G describes, above.

Cathy2 wrote:Hoping against hope, I went to the Kroger website to locate a store near Hammond, IN, they gave me:

FOOD 4 LESS - CHICAGO
5556 W. 159TH ST.
OAK FOREST, IL 60452
Store Phone: 708-535-0834

While it is not precisely a Kroger, it is part of the Kroger family of stores. Has anyone been? Do they carry Kroger private label items?

I have shopped at the Food 4 Less in Evanston several times, but I have not been there for a while. For some reason, it is not listed on their website (maybe it closed?). It is (was?) at Main and McCormick, where Builder's Square used to be. They do carry all the Kroger brands. It is a strange store. Some of the products are very good and inexpensive , such as the baked goods, some produce and the pork (i got really nice babyback ribs there very cheap). Other products are just cheap and awful. For instance, they carry fake pressed lunchmeats, right next to the Bobak sausage. They carry Miceli cheese next to artificial Mozarella. On certain items, they have a huge selection of brands, other things like coffee or mustard, they carry only 1 or 2 varieties. They do carry big bags of Kroger brand hickory chunks, which are great, and the Kroger brand Olive oil is actually pretty good. For items like soda-pop and chips, you can't beat the prices.