JimInLoganSquare wrote:

Cynthia wrote:

Mike G wrote:I'd just like to point out that any Jewel would LOVE to be as tidy as Patel Bros.

Maybe this is a suburb/city thing. I've been to Patel Brothers on a number of occasions, and I love it, but it's not any tidier than my local Jewel.

It IS a suburb/city thing. Jewel stores in the suburbs are cleaner than those in the city. Always have been. That said, Jewel is really about the lousiest excuse for a grocery store chain in my experience (which, being from Indianapolis, means primarily Marsh and Kroger). An object lesson: 17 years ago there was a Jewel in Bloomington, Indiana, and it was the cleanest Jewel I ever set foot in. That said, it was still dimly lit, shabby looking, with shelves that were less well-stocked than the nearby Kroger store that was half its size. The Bloomington Jewel folded in 1990 and was taken over by Mr. D's, a local operation that was head and shoulders better than any Jewel, anywhere.

Let's face it, Jewel just sucks. They don't care about their customers or their competition, and that's why they are failing and losing out to newer, better competitors like Whole Foods and even Costco. And the independent "ethnic" grocers.

As this thread wanders further and further afield: I don't think I've ever seen grocery stores as fine as they can be in Texas(birthplace of ye olde cramped, vitamin-reeking, hippie-holdover Whole Foods...now corporate behemoth). In Houston alone we had/have Randalls, Whole Foods, Krogers, Safeway, Eagle, the *I forget the name of it local Houston Jewish chain...my mom has a funny story about rear-ending the scion's car as a teenager*EDIT: they ended up dating for awhile!, Weingarten's, and the relative newcomer, Central Market. Oh! Central Market, how I love thee! I know I'm forgetting some.

Yes, Chicago urban chains are drab and beaten-down(even the ones that've had makeovers).

point two: the use of quotes around "ethnic."

I saw the term "ethnic" bandied about quite a lot recently as per a certain "ethnic" festival or two in the nearby North. I find the idea of calling a so-called "ethnic" festival, "ethnic," antiquated, but figured no one else minded so why should I? Hence, no quotes around ethnic market.

There are a couple Food 4 Less locations on the south side of chicago, also. One at about 46th and damen and one at about 3900 S Cicero. I think there's also one down in Burbank near all the big boxes (walmart, costco, target, home depot, etc) on Cicero.

Christopher,

Don't forget Jamail's, where not only did they have a pianist playing a grand piano, but clerks to bag up your bananas for you.

Evil Ronnie wrote:Christopher,

Don't forget Jamail's, where not only did they have a pianist playing a grand piano, but clerks to bag up your bananas for you.

Oh! snap! I forgot Jamail's! Before I visited Manhattan for the first time I thought all metropolitan centers had such fine grocery stores. Imagine my distress at the ubiquitous tiny, dingy neighborhood grocery(not counting Zabar's yadda yadda yadda). Even the crappiest Safeway in Houston was leagues better than any urban Jewel.

Gypsy Boy wrote:

Only downside I've discovered is that, sometimes, at the ethnic store, there is at least a year's worth of dust on the products.

Actually, I've had precisely the opposite problem. At Patel Brothers--to pick an ethnic market at random--I find the turnover is much higher than at non-specialty markets. I can't imagine that The Spice House--again, to pick a place at random (no slight intended)--sells anywhere near the volume of something like asafoetida that Patel does. And I have had this same experience in a variety of places. Which is not to suggest it isn't wise to check the dates and the dust...just my two cents.

GB,

Greetings... You make a good point. The fancy stores send clerks around to dust things off and every now and again they move things around. That's not to say 'ethnic' stores never try to pawn off old stock but one has to be sensible about these things; some things can be judged by sight, others one figures out over time (with regard to what's dusty and fine and what's dusty and old and bad).

And let me just call attention also to the fact that not all 'ethnic' stores offer the same quality or the same economy.* The Greek store on Ewing (if its still going) is great for some things, not so great for others; same goes for Athens Market; then there's the suburban behemoth of Greek and Balkan specialty stores, Minos. There are certain things I prefer to get at each of them... And the prices are pretty much always better than they are for the same things at stores such as Whole Food or Fox & Obel... But then some of the self-same items that the Greek specialty stores carry can be gotten for less at Arab specialty stores or neighbourhood groceries like Andy's up in Albany Park.

Links:
Ellinikon Pandopoleion (link)
Athens Market (link)
Minos Imported Foods and Liquor (link)

Antonius

* Another obvious point but that's in the spirit of the thread.

In general, the staples of any ethnic cuisine -- the things people cook with every day -- will be cheapest in stores that cater to that community. The high-end gourmet stores are selling the convenience of being able to buy a lot of different products in one place.

If you cook a lot of some particular ethnic cuisine, you're best off traveling to an ethnic grocery for ingredients. If not, you may as well pay a little more and save on gas mileage.

In an effort to keep our grocery and fuel bills down to reasonable levels, I try to combine trips to food stores with other errands, rotate from store to store each shopping trip (ethnic market one week, Meijer the next, Costco, Trader Joe's, etc.) and avoid food shopping more than once a week or so, even if we run out of stuff. This doesn't always work, particularly if what we've run out of is cat food or toilet paper.

It also leads to a running household dispute, because Himself is capable of going into Costco, buying a case of tp and leaving, and I am not. On the other hand, I maintain (see above) that this is not economical behavior, gas wise. It also has a downside in that with our small household my ability to stock up on produce is limited.

Dominicks and Jewel operate under unionized contracts other local food stores avoid. We should not debate this issue here, but it is a salient fact.

A month or two back I was allured back to Dominicks for the first time in a while by some very reasonable advertised prices. I went to the Park Ridge store and while the store was still fairly new, they had just redone a significant part of it to reflect the new Dominicks experience.

I took some extensive notes, but lets leave it with my list of produce found under the exotic moniker: boniato, chayote, cactus, opo, meyer lemon, habaneros, Thai eggplant, moo qua, daikon, lok bok, mulaga, ... I'm pretty hip but was blown away. Some of these things I have no idea what to do with.

I am curious to see what they've restocked.

Whether we're talking Jewel, Dominicks, produce land, or IGA, everything comes down to quality, selection, availability, and convenience. Price rides tight behind, but time is money. A smart shopper has little loyalty and good hunter instincts.

-ramon

Many LTH'ers know the Fuck Corporate Groceries blog (and I'm pretty sure some, the blogger), but if you don't and you're still following this thread, you ought to check it out. Not the least because it was focused on Chicago.

The author "shut it down" at the end of 2005 (and has since relocated to Germany), but it was fun to read while it lasted.

Ramon wrote:A month or two back I was allured back to Dominicks for the first time in a while by some very reasonable advertised prices. I went to the Park Ridge store and while the store was still fairly new, they had just redone a significant part of it to reflect the new Dominicks experience.

I took some extensive notes, but lets leave it with my list of produce found under the exotic moniker: boniato, chayote, cactus, opo, meyer lemon, habaneros, Thai eggplant, moo qua, daikon, lok bok, mulaga, ... I'm pretty hip but was blown away. Some of these things I have no idea what to do with.
-ramon

Yeah.

While I see vastly more of this stuff at the ethnic grocers, and cheaper, I see enough of it regularly at my Jewel and Dominick's to have been surprised by the comments about the urban stores. Dominick's costs more than Jewel, unless things are on sale, and then it's okay, but the local Dominick's is my most reliable source of pomelo and young coconut. Toss in Sunset Foods, and the big grocery stores out here are pretty decent places to shop. Sure, not as wildly exciting as the big ethnic places, but still very nice, well-stocked, and with enough cool stuff that I don't always have to make a special trip to a second store.

Dominick's and Jewel both stock stores according to their perception of local clientele. So stores in Hispanic neighborhoods are likely to have more Mexican items, stores in Jewish neighborhoods stock more kosher products and stores in affluent areas have more gourmet foods and exotica.

So why'd they stop carrying stainless steel appliance cleaner in Roscoe Village?

The good news, about supermarkets, as I have mentioned before, is that the vacuum in quality left by the decay/buyouts of Dommicks and Jewel, has been a big infusion of ethnic/independent supermarkets. I have not found one I do not like.

Maybe lowest on my list is Bobaks--the supermarket is a lot nicer than the buffet, but I would call Bobak's the most accessible of the new breed of Polish superstores. Higher for sure are Avenues on Belmont very far west--near Oak Park Avenue--and the Big Andy's up on Milwaukee. A good multi-ethnci place is A&G at Belmont near Central, and all of the new Carneceria Guanajunto's are nice (at least all of the ones I've been to).

The thing is, while all of these places have ethic orientations, they are foremost supermarkets. That is, they are big, well lighted, and stock anything you would need for a week if you did not cook exotically. OK, I know the inventory won't be that deep on many items, but what they hey. What I will say is the quality of the basics at these places, the produce, the deli meats, the regular meats, prepared stuff, well it's not the Farmer's Market, but well I'd stack it against about any supermarket around the USA.

So, don't feel bad we don't have Wegman's; feel glad we have Avenue's.

Gypsy Boy wrote:

Only downside I've discovered is that, sometimes, at the ethnic store, there is at least a year's worth of dust on the products.

Actually, I've had precisely the opposite problem. At Patel Brothers--to pick an ethnic market at random--I find the turnover is much higher than at non-specialty markets. I can't imagine that The Spice House--again, to pick a place at random (no slight intended)--sells anywhere near the volume of something like asafoetida that Patel does. And I have had this same experience in a variety of places. Which is not to suggest it isn't wise to check the dates and the dust...just my two cents.

I've made this same observation myself a few times, and am always slightly annoyed when folks sugges tthe spice house to pick up for example cardamom, sure for some items they have a higher quality but they aren't moving nearly as fast. this is especially true for items that lose their aroma quickly

on the asoefetida issue, the powdered you buy at devon (can't speak for spice house, as I've never looks at the asoefetida there) is mixed with dry rice powder and is actually more dilute than lump asoefetida, which is a very dangerous thing in the wrong hands.

the turnover things works both ways of course, one of the worst things i've eaten was in grabbing a particualrly nice looking apple pastry from the "european flavors" deli on oakton in skokie and taking a bite out of it to see it full of mold.

zim wrote:

Gypsy Boy wrote:

Only downside I've discovered is that, sometimes, at the ethnic store, there is at least a year's worth of dust on the products.

Actually, I've had precisely the opposite problem. At Patel Brothers--to pick an ethnic market at random--I find the turnover is much higher than at non-specialty markets. I can't imagine that The Spice House--again, to pick a place at random (no slight intended)--sells anywhere near the volume of something like asafoetida that Patel does. And I have had this same experience in a variety of places. Which is not to suggest it isn't wise to check the dates and the dust...just my two cents.

I've made this same observation myself a few times, and am always slightly annoyed when folks sugges tthe spice house to pick up for example cardamom, sure for some items they have a higher quality but they aren't moving nearly as fast. this is especially true for items that lose their aroma quickly

on the asoefetida issue, the powdered you buy at devon (can't speak for spice house, as I've never looks at the asoefetida there) is mixed with dry rice powder and is actually more dilute than lump asoefetida, which is a very dangerous thing in the wrong hands.

I've never seen lump asafoetida. The Spice House carries the ridiculously expensive ubiquitous yellow plastic jar that is mixed with rice powder. Patel Bros. Has both the yellow and white jars...I didn't look all that closely, but perhaps the white jar is "lump."? It was priced higher at just a few cents more than the yellow.Only problem with Patel Bros. is, as mentioned above, they only sell spices in large pre-packaged quantities.
A truly great deal at 4-5 bucks a pop if you have someone to share with...but, for a one time meal(or, if you wanted to experiment)...I'd go with The Spice House and just grab an ounce of whatever.

LAZ wrote:Dominick's and Jewel both stock stores according to their perception of local clientele. So stores in Hispanic neighborhoods are likely to have more Mexican items, stores in Jewish neighborhoods stock more kosher products and stores in affluent areas have more gourmet foods and exotica.

Then the Jewel in Evanston on Chicago avenue must think it's in poverty-ville.

Christopher Gordon wrote:

I've never seen lump asafoetida.

Try Patel Bros. That's where I got mine. It comes (or at least came when I got it in the past year--one doesn't need to resupply often) in a small blue plastic "tin." with a paper label. The brand appears to be Vandevi (out of Mumbai, though the cap is imprinted with the name V.N. Thakkar Hingwala & Sons). It contains 100 grams and actually has a year marked on the label (for freshness, I presume) . I don't know enough about it to comment thereupon, but the stuff inside is in small dark brownish chunks reminiscent of rock candy that can be rather easily ground for oneself. The ingredient list names only gum arabic, wheat flour, and asafoetida. My tin no longer bears a price but my recollection is that it was not at all expensive. (Word to the wise, if you go in and ask for asafoetida, you may well be greeted, as I was, with a blank stare. Ask instead for "hing".)[/b]

Christopher Gordon wrote: I've never seen lump asafoetida.

Try Patel Bros. That's where I got mine. It comes (or at least came when I got it in the past year--one doesn't need to resupply often) in a small blue plastic "tin." with a paper label. The brand appears to be Vandevi (out of Mumbai, though the cap is imprinted with the name V.N. Thakkar Hingwala & Sons). It contains 100 grams and actually has a year marked on the label (for freshness, I presume) . I don't know enough about it to comment thereupon, but the stuff inside is in small dark brownish chunks reminiscent of rock candy that can be rather easily ground for oneself. The ingredient list names only gum arabic, wheat flour, and asafoetida. My tin no longer bears a price but my recollection is that it was not at all expensive. (Word to the wise, if you go in and ask for asafoetida, you may well be greeted, as I was, with a blank stare. Ask instead for "hing".)

leek wrote:

LAZ wrote:Dominick's and Jewel both stock stores according to their perception of local clientele. So stores in Hispanic neighborhoods are likely to have more Mexican items, stores in Jewish neighborhoods stock more kosher products and stores in affluent areas have more gourmet foods and exotica.

Then the Jewel in Evanston on Chicago avenue must think it's in poverty-ville.

No but I think they realize that a certain demographic in the area is more likely to shop at wild oats or whole foods, and so they don't compete with them but rather food for less

zim wrote:

leek wrote:

LAZ wrote:Dominick's and Jewel both stock stores according to their perception of local clientele. So stores in Hispanic neighborhoods are likely to have more Mexican items, stores in Jewish neighborhoods stock more kosher products and stores in affluent areas have more gourmet foods and exotica.

Then the Jewel in Evanston on Chicago avenue must think it's in poverty-ville.

No but I think they realize that a certain demographic in the area is more likely to shop at wild oats or whole foods, and so they don't compete with them but rather food for less

Interestingly, the Dominick's on Roosevelt, which will be directly impacted by the impending opening of the Whole Foods across the street, has tried to go a bit more upscale in most departments and has done a surprisingly good job -- for Dominick's that is. It's funny though, since they are now largely bringing back food items that they gradually dropped after the buy-out some years back. They've also added a lot of 'life-style' stuff... So now you can buy a fondue set there but no plastic dish rack (rich people just through out the dirty dishes, right?).

In any event, in this location they seem to be trying to get a jump on and undercut the competition (to be) at the upscale level.

Antonius

Yes, our Dominicks now has Thai eggplant and kabocha squash and donut peaches and sets of creme brulee dishes and The New Spanish Table but a couple weeks ago every one of the kiddie-yogurt packs I was intending to buy was past the expiration date.

Amata wrote: but a couple weeks ago every one of the kiddie-yogurt packs I was intending to buy was past the expiration date.

I have been in Dominick's stores where fully HALF of their dairy products are marked down (close to expiration date). You have to be VERY careful when shopping there.

Yes, our Dominicks now has Thai eggplant and kabocha squash and donut peaches and sets of creme brulee dishes and The New Spanish Table

Although ordinarily I would consider a Jewel or Dominicks pretty much the last place to look for books, I spotted a perfectly good cookbook in a super-bargain bin, no less, a few months back, one of David Rosengarten's books. So now I do peek through quickly, there might be at least a good cookbook or two if not, say, a first edition of Leaves of Grass or the Tres Riches Heures of the Duc de Berry.

Mike G wrote:So now I do peek through quickly, there might be at least a good cookbook or two if not, say, a first edition of Leaves of Grass...

Sorry, I picked up the last copy of Leaves of Grass on Sunday. And with my Dominick's FreshValues card, I saved $3.95! I think I saw a first edition Rimbaud with some minor water damage (stored too close to the produce sprinklers), so maybe you should check that out.

And in the checkout line, you could watch Jay Leno reading from it!