Flip wrote:

Dmnkly wrote:So the problem is, if one wants to limit the term BBQ to the former definition, what the heck do you call the latter? As amusing as Meat Jell-o is (and this is a name that really, really needs an actual dish to go with it), I have to believe there's something a little more diplomatic

I'm sure, after reading this, that either Moto or Alinea will be serving this very soon.

Flip

Meat Jell-o = aspic

Instead of fruit cocktail floating in strawberry Jell-o, suspend some meaty bits in aspic in a mold shaped like a pig. Surely Claudius gorged himself on such savory jiggliness.

Banner thread, people.

Those aren't windmills, remember?

Regardless of what happens next, this string contains some of the most enjoyable writing I have seen in a long while. Thank you.


Jeff"I should have just parboiled it"B

How long did you boil those links for?

saps wrote:How long did you boil those links for?

Eh, boiling is bougeousie. Microwave or die!

-ab the culinary Che Guevara

You're supposed to nuke the pig (after stuffing it with hickory chips) and boil the links. Everybody knows that.

I prefer to par-boil my ribs in liquid smoke.

Entertaining, amusing and educational thread indeed.

First let me say that the Olive Garden ranking in Milwaukee reminds me of my 11 day business trip to Akron. The first thing I did when I got there was ask about where to get the best pizza. Person after person told me Dominos. At first I thought it was a joke, but I spent the next 11 days proving them right. You could get rich in that town just heating up frozen pizza and selling it.

But let's keep one thing in mind. What we grow up eating is what we tend to favor. I grew up in the 60's in Rogers Park. There were no real BBQ places at all. I grew up on the ribs from Sally's on Western. I still would love to find a place that serves ribs like that. But it ain't BBQ.

We also had Talbotts. It was a dry rib with no sauce. And it was pretty good, but it ain't BBQ. Ribs were also a popular dish as Millers, and we all know that wasn't BBQ. And almost every pizza joint in the neighborhood sold ribs, and you can't get farther from BBQ than that.

But it's what we grew up eating. There were no real BBQ places around. And nobody sold pulled pork or brisket. It was ribs and chicken, that's it. Hot links? The closest we got was the Oscar Meyer Smokey Links at Wrigely Field.

So people can be excused for actually liking meat-jello. It's what they grew up eating. But it no more resembles BBQ than your local carry-out Chinese restaurant resembles real Chinese food.

To add one more point, even real BBQ is regionalized. People in Texas have a different idea of BBQ than the people of Kansas City. And they are both different than North Carolina who, themselves, argues with South Carolina about what real BBQ is.

midas wrote:But let's keep one thing in mind. What we grow up eating is what we tend to favor. I grew up in the 60's in Rogers Park. There were no real BBQ places at all. I grew up on the ribs from Sally's on Western. I still would love to find a place that serves ribs like that. But it ain't BBQ.

I guess there's something intuitively acceptable about the position that what we ate as kids is what we like the best, but I was in my mid-twenties before I ever had real Chinese or Mexican food, and I do not tend to prefer chop suey or Taco Bell.

So I can't accept, as a fundamental principle, that we pretty much prefer what we ate as kids. We may have childhood favorites, but I doubt that many on this board eat now as they did when they were young uns.

Hammond

midas wrote:First let me say that the Olive Garden ranking in Milwaukee reminds me of my 11 day business trip to Akron. The first thing I did when I got there was ask about where to get the best pizza. Person after person told me Dominos. At first I thought it was a joke, but I spent the next 11 days proving them right. You could get rich in that town just heating up frozen pizza and selling it.

But let's keep one thing in mind. What we grow up eating is what we tend to favor. I grew up in the 60's in Rogers Park. There were no real BBQ places at all. I grew up on the ribs from Sally's on Western. I still would love to find a place that serves ribs like that. But it ain't BBQ.

We also had Talbotts. It was a dry rib with no sauce. And it was pretty good, but it ain't BBQ. Ribs were also a popular dish as Millers, and we all know that wasn't BBQ. And almost every pizza joint in the neighborhood sold ribs, and you can't get farther from BBQ than that.

But it's what we grew up eating. There were no real BBQ places around. And nobody sold pulled pork or brisket. It was ribs and chicken, that's it. Hot links? The closest we got was the Oscar Meyer Smokey Links at Wrigely Field.

So people can be excused for actually liking meat-jello. It's what they grew up eating. But it no more resembles BBQ than your local carry-out Chinese restaurant resembles real Chinese food.

To add one more point, even real BBQ is regionalized. People in Texas have a different idea of BBQ than the people of Kansas City. And they are both different than North Carolina who, themselves, argues with South Carolina about what real BBQ is.

pandora's BBQ:

wow! Are we verging on arguing nature vs. nurture?

soon someone'll have to dredge up the pizza-as-mother's-milk debate

imo: heh...

the palate evolves, huh?

To add one more point, even real BBQ is regionalized. People in Texas have a different idea of BBQ than the people of Kansas City. And they are both different than North Carolina who, themselves, argues with South Carolina about what real BBQ is.

Not to mention what we out West think of as bbq - tri-tip cooked over red oak in Cali, or the same over mesquite in AZ. Not cooked slowly forever, but not grilled, either - sorta in between. Start it hot, sear it, kill the flame, and smoke judiciously - that's what I do. It is its own form of the art, not a lesser echelon. God bless TI for always carrying tri-tip.

Also, just to start a new brouhaha, I consider ribs gross. Pork ribs, beef ribs, baby back, country-style, Wiviott-approved, or Twin Anchor-y - doesn't matter. Blech.

Tri-tip is the way to go.

tri tip? not for me.

as long as there's a pig alive, i'll never be a vegetarian. i see a pig and say "you look delicious".

great reading.

LTH,

Speaking of Honey 1, had very nice lunch there today with a small group. I was shooting the breeze with Robert Sr. while he pulled pork shoulder fresh from the smoker and, as he is pulling the pork, with an actual fork mind you, he is setting aside the crisp fatty bark.

Now I know Robert Sr.'s MO* pretty well, he does not like crisp, tosses the burn edges of spare slabs and, in pursuit of quality, does not think about the bottom line. In other words, he was going to toss all that delicious pig candy, actually, more like pig crack, in the circular file.

Not while I'm standing next to him he isn't! I brought out a small, maybe 4-5 ounces, of the piggy burnt ends and there was nothing but snuffling, happy sounds for the next couple of minutes.

Fatty, crispy, meaty, pig crack, aka piggy bark, what a treat. We suggested to Robert Sr. He put it on the menu as a side, not sure if he will, or what he might charge, but, (calling JeffB, Steve Z) next time you are at Honey 1 be sure to inquire about pork shoulder bark.

Enjoy,
Gary

*modus operandi

"So the problem is, if one wants to limit the term BBQ to the former definition, what the heck do you call the latter"

You could call it bolshevik (don't know how to do that thread link trick, sorry) and fob it off on the masses in NW Indiana, who don't know what that is, anyway. You might have to form it into a loaf and sell it from the deli case, though.

Midas wrote:

"First let me say that the Olive Garden ranking in Milwaukee reminds me of my 11 day business trip to Akron. The first thing I did when I got there was ask about where to get the best pizza. Person after person told me Dominos. At first I thought it was a joke, but I spent the next 11 days proving them right. You could get rich in that town just heating up frozen pizza and selling it. "

LOL. Himself, in his not quite so new job, had to sub in temporarily for an account exec who quit unexpectedly. He's definitely NOT the account exec type, but no matter....this gig required him to travel every other Monday to the client's headquarters, in a small town near a large city in Ohio, for a meeting that, according to Himself, could have been done by teleconference, and then lunch bought for the client's "team" at the best restaurant in said town, named "Truly Yours" (no joke) which he described as an independent restaurant somewhere between Denny's and Marie Callendar's.

Luckily, he is now safely back in production, where he doesn't have to worry about wining and dining clients so much.

jazzfood wrote:as long as there's a pig alive, i'll never be a vegetarian. i see a pig and say "you look delicious".

I about snorted my coffee when I read this.

Great thread.

well, after reading this thread yesterday I was starving for a links/tips combo and it did not disappoint as dinner last nite (although I would have liked more links in there this time).

The tips were great as usual and the fries were actually pretty good (crisp on the outside and pillowy in the center) last nite.

I think Honey1 is worth all the praise and a valient defense against the "chicago" rib

G Wiv wrote:In other words, he was going to toss all that delicious pig candy, actually, more like pig crack, in the circular file.

Huh, I would've thought pig crack was a vital ingredient in the hot links. Although the casing's from a little more frontwards, I guess.

Let me please add that my experience with pizza and Akron was about 15 years ago, lest I offend someone. I'm sure it's no longer the case that Domino's is the best pizza in town. I'm sure they now have a Pizza Hut there

sabersix wrote:I have to say that the following line is the most pompus thing I have seen since the discussion of allowing Woman/Blacks to have the right to vote. And I think makes my point.

"Not every opinion is of equal value." or so say Antonius.

I know that JiLS and Antonius responded quite ably to this in terms of why some opinions carry more weight than (or are more valuable than) others, but one other thing of note is that I think the sentiment expressed by sabersix perhaps conflates two different principles. The first principle, which is reflected in part in the American approach to freedom of speech, is that everyone has a right to an opinion (and, for purposes of the First Amendment, a right to express that opinion free of government interference). On that, I think we all can agree. The second principle is that all opinions are created equal. I believe that to be wrong, largely for the reasons stated by JiLS and Antonius. Two related, but different concepts.

And since someone brought in the Onion: Meat Now America's No. 2 Condiment.

G Wiv wrote:Speaking of Honey 1

Is that what we were doing?

G Wiv wrote:Now I know Robert Sr.'s MO* pretty well, he does not like crisp, tosses the burn edges of spare slabs and, in pursuit of quality, does not think about the bottom line. In other words, he was going to toss all that delicious pig candy, actually, more like pig crack, in the circular file.

Calvin Trillin wrote:The main course at Bryant's, as far as I'm concerned, is something that is given away free--the burned edges of the brisket. The counterman just pushes them over to the side as he slices the beef, and anyone who wants them helps himself. I dream of those burned edges. Sometimes when I'm in some awful, overpriced restaurant in some strange town--all of my restaurant-finding techniques having failed, so that I'm left to choke down something that costs seven dollars and tastes like a medium-rare sponge--a blank look comes over my face: I have just realized that at that very moment someone in Kansas City is being given those burned edges free.

(and later)

I realize that I could be tempted to betray my principles for a handful of burned edges from Arthur Bryant's...

Calvin Trillin wrote:The main course at Bryant's, as far as I'm concerned, is something that is given away free--the burned edges of the brisket. The counterman just pushes them over to the side as he slices the beef, and anyone who wants them helps himself.

(and later)

I realize that I could be tempted to betray my principles for a handful of burned edges from Arthur Bryant's...

The days of free burnt ends at Bryant's are long gone. They now sell the burnt ends and they're so popular that a lot of times you don't get actual burnt ends when you order, but chunk sized pieces of beef with some browned edges attached.

stevez wrote:The days of free burnt ends at Bryant's are long gone. They now sell the burnt ends and they're so popular that a lot of times you don't get actual burnt ends when you order, but chunk sized pieces of beef with some browned edges attached.

Alas. I think those words are more than 30 yrs old, so I guess it's not surprising. No doubt it's all CT's fault that they started charging.

Well, someone still ought to suggest it to Mr. Adams.

stevez wrote:The days of free burnt ends at Bryant's are long gone. They now sell the burnt ends and they're so popular that a lot of times you don't get actual burnt ends when you order, but chunk sized pieces of beef with some browned edges attached.

I will be at Bryant's in two months and will scout this out. There is a big BBQ contest going in Kansas City the first weekend of October and I'm going there to taste the fare.

rdstoll wrote:

stevez wrote:The days of free burnt ends at Bryant's are long gone. They now sell the burnt ends and they're so popular that a lot of times you don't get actual burnt ends when you order, but chunk sized pieces of beef with some browned edges attached.

I will be at Bryant's in two months and will scout this out. There is a big BBQ contest going in Kansas City the first weekend of October and I'm going there to taste the fare.

Be sure to check this thread and this threadbefore you go. While a visit to Bryant's is a must on any KC trip...especially if it's your first trip to KC, there are a number of other places that I find even more to my liking than Bryant's (with all due respect). Don't miss a chance to check out Danny Edwards Eat it and Beat It, The Smokestack and/or LC's.

I was in Kansas City a week ago, and they do indeed charge for the burnt ends at Bryant's. I also recall, perhaps erroneously, that they have a burnt end sandwich on the menu at the Bryant's place in the airport.

So far as I could tell last December, the airport Bryant's is no more.

For the OP and others: Quiznous releases new sandwitch -- the "New Smokehouse Beef Brisket."

http://www.quiznos.com/menu/sub_brisket.asp

I'm lonley -- please say hi to me in line tomorrow,

-ramon

Ramon wrote:I'm lonley -- please say hi to me in line tomorrow

Will do

sabersix wrote: And what the hell is so bad about "meat Jello"?

to see, regrettably, REAL meat jello go to this link:www.lilek.com/institute/gallery/meat2/12.html justjoan

I was with JCampagna at Honey 1 and agree with him that the BBQ was not up to our expectations. The meat was tough and difficult to chew. I would not call it completely flavorless, however, the toughness made the whole experience unsatisying. The meat seemed to have been cooked the day before and lacked the quality we were seeking as it peeled off the bone rather than falling off the bone or allowing us to chew it off the bone as better BBQ I have had has been presented. The sauce was bland and lacked a distinctive flavor and the sides were unsatisfying as well.

As for the outcry against a "rookie" post, I think the responses were arrogant and out of line. To blast a man who posts His Own Opinion is uncalled for. The man hated the food that night and posted this because he felt that there were too many lemmings on this site who seem to be kissing up to the previous review. State your own opinion. "Rookie" posts occur because people were moved to state their opinion on a site that is set up to receive that opinion.