Favorite pots and pans

Okay, after using the same knives, bread pans, and jello molds for the last 35 years, we get to celebrate our anniversary and the new kitchen by buying new stuff. So we went out today and got a couple of Wusthof-Trident knives and a new Microplane and a really cool silicone pastry brush from Northwestern Cutlery, and a great big griddle from The Edward Don outlet, and some silicon scrapers from Target, and a designer trash can from the Container Store, and lots more stuff from lots more places.

But I'm really hung up on pots and pans. Ed, of course, is all for me buying All-Clad, but it struck me as awfully heavy and not very comfortable--not to mention mighty expensive. I've practically memorized the ratings from Consumer Reports and Cooks Illustrated. But I need the help of the real (and thrifty) cooks of the LTH Forum.

My priorities are even heating, dishwasher safe ( which eliminates Calphalon as far as I can tell), cool and comfortable handles, ability for at least some of the pans to go into the oven or under a broiler, not too heavy, not obscenely expensive.

I'm going to need at least a saute pan, a frying pan, two or three saucepans, and a dutch oven.


Here are a bunch of specific questions:
1. Set or mix and match?
2. Stainless or non-stick interiors?
3. Anyone have any experience with a. Look Cookware,
b. Wolfgang Puck Bistro, c. Tramontina Sterling, or d. Tools of the Trade Belgique Gourmet?

4. What's it worth not to have Wolfgang Puck's signature on all my cookware?



Thanks for your help.

Well the req's for dishwasher-safe and not-too-heavy (both very understandable desires) pretty much rule out my fave cookware - cast iron. But I'd be remiss if I didn't suggest that at least for the dutch oven you give cast iron some consideration; I can't imagine trying to use anything else for a dutch oven at this point.

Interesting suggestion. Of all my old cookware, only my cast iron was fit for Goodwill, and I did keep my favorite two-egg cast iron frying pan. But I sent the rest of my cast iron (a bigger fry pan and a couple of griddles) away on the grounds that they didn't heat as evenly as I wanted and didn't rest straight enough on the burners. But I've never had a cast iron dutch oven, and, for as often as I'd use it, it might be worth considering. Thanks.

Ann Fisher wrote:I'm going to need at least a saute pan, a frying pan, two or three saucepans, and a dutch oven.


Here are a bunch of specific questions:
1. Set or mix and match?
2. Stainless or non-stick interiors?

Mix and match, unless you hang your cookware somewhere visible and are more concerned with how it looks than how it cooks. Get some nonstick and some stainless. Nonstick for eggs, sauces and sticky foods; stainless when the fond is important.

To save weight and expense, go with heavy-duty aluminium for the nonstick. You can get commercial grade stuff at Edward Don or some other restaurant supply. (Of course, it depends on what kind of stove you have -- this won't work if you need perfectly flat bottoms, as they tend to warp a bit.)

I do love my nonstick All-Clad saucepan, though; it cooks really evenly. I put it in the dishwasher, even though its instructions said not to. It may not last my lifetime. I can live with it.

Check out places like T.J. Maxx and Marshall's; they often have great deals on odd pieces of cookware.

Ann Fisher wrote:Interesting suggestion. Of all my old cookware, only my cast iron was fit for Goodwill, and I did keep my favorite two-egg cast iron frying pan. But I sent the rest of my cast iron (a bigger fry pan and a couple of griddles) away on the grounds that they didn't heat as evenly as I wanted and didn't rest straight enough on the burners. But I've never had a cast iron dutch oven, and, for as often as I'd use it, it might be worth considering. Thanks.

I wish I would have known about your cast iron stuff being given away. I'm searching for a large cast iron skillet. I know they're cheap enough to buy new, but I'm looking for a well seasoned used one.

Ann Fisher wrote:But I'm really hung up on pots and pans. Ed, of course, is all for me buying All-Clad, but it struck me as awfully heavy and not very comfortable--not to mention mighty expensive.

Ann,

All-clad, listen to your son, buy All-clad

I've used and abused our All-clad LTD for 16-years, we traded in two mediocre wedding present sets of pots & pans for All-clad. Even heating, pleasure to use, oven/broiler safe, easy to clean, still look (almost) new after 16-years of use. We've added to our original set of All-clad over the years.

I do not put All-clad in the dishwasher, but Revrend Andy, who bought All-clad on my recommendation 10-12 years ago, does with no ill-effects.

I'm not wild about non-stick and don't own any. In the past I always, eventually, ended up chewing on a little flake of non-stick 'stuff' or, with the more expensive types, the finish wore off overly quick for 90-bucks a pop.

I own a few well worn cast iron, which I would not trade for the world, and some Le Creuset. I'm ambivalent about the Le Creuset, talk heavy, but for certain applications Le Creuset works well.

My one tip for All-clad, cast iron and most any pan that does not have a non-stick finish, maintenance is to clean the inside periodically with a mixture of lemon juice and kosher salt. The salt is slightly abrasive, without scratching, and the lemon juice cleans and sparkles. (I sound like a advert. )

Enjoy,
Gary

stevez wrote:I wish I would have known about your cast iron stuff being given away. I'm searching for a large cast iron skillet. I know they're cheap enough to buy new, but I'm looking for a well seasoned used one.

When I buy cast iron I season it every day for a week, melt and simmer some lard or shortening a few times and begin to use. Then use it a lot. I usually get a good seasoning within a few months. Besides, finding a clean well seasoned cast iron pan may take longer than the above process.

Ann Fisher wrote:
3. Anyone have any experience with ... or d. Tools of the Trade Belgique Gourmet?

Hi Ann,

what fun to get to pick all new stuff! Antonius and I have a set of Belgique which we love. It's stainless steel, not non-stick but extremely easy to clean. We have never tried putting it in the dishwasher, for reasons of space as much as anything, but because it's so easy to clean it never really occurred to me to use the dishwasher.

Belgique used to be available at Fields in the basement, but we haven't seen it there for several years. I just googled it and found press releases announcing new design lines and a statement that it is only available from Macy's. Here's a link to Belgique products at Macy's online.

As an example of the price, Macy's lists a 16 piece set for $299.

Aside from our Belgique pots and pans, we also constantly use a big Revere ware stock pot for cooking pasta (slightly bigger -- and less heavy to pick up! -- than the one in the Belgique set, which ends up getting used mostly for soups), and a 12 inch non stick frying pan which we got 4 years ago at IKEA for $25.

Finally, a note on All-Clad -- the latest Chef's Catalog is featuring a sale on All-Clad (chefscatalog.com), though if you've been researching this you may well know of places with even better prices.

Ann:

As a footnote to the above by Amata, I'm sure Belgique is not terribly different in quality from other basic stainless steel stuff but the prices are pretty low. The 16 piece set mentioned above for ca $300 has gone up a bit since I bought mine back in the late 1980's (at which time I paid $150 in a department store in Jersey).

Anyway, I've been using the Belgiue stuff pretty much every day since 1989 and have no complaints. In particular, I love the Dutch ovens (I bought a second, slightly deeper one to augment what came in the set). That deeper (with slightly smaller bottom and curved walls) of the two is sort of my default cooking device and I especially like it for making sauces for pasta on account of the fact that the high walls allow for putting even large quantities of pasta into the pan (=Dutch oven) with the sauce for finishing. On the other hand, the stock pot that came with the set I find slightly smaller than I prefer for boling pasta, which must, like the fishes, be able to swim free. I do like it for soups and also for making larger quantities of ragout/ragù-like substances (n.b. it has a heay bottom).

We also have a full set of Le Creuset pots and pans. Of those, I find the most useful are the Dutch oven (which is great for slow cooking at even heat, thus excellent for a nice Sunday ragù alla Napoletana) and the heavy skillet. Like Gary, I find them somewhat limited, though perfect for certain tasks. By the way, the lid for the Le Creuset Dutch oven seals pretty tightly on its own, which is nice, but it has a plastic knob on top as handle, which limits the temperture at which you can use the thing in the oven.

A decent non-stick pan or two, one small and one large, I find very handy to have on hand. But they don't last too long so buying one that is very expensive seems a waste. Non-sticks that have a heavier bottom and are well constructed (good handle, well formed cooking area and walls) and on sale are good finds.

I confess that I'm partial to Belgique in part simply because it's from Belgium, but I also find the quality for cost ratio a very real positive factor. All Clad is, of course, excellent, as Gary says, but rather more expensive, I believe. If expense is not a major issue, then Belgique is perhaps less interesting.

Antonius

Hi,

For many years, I had a glass cooktop which required smooth bottomed pots and pans. I bought Corning Visionware, which I still use and like. I can be sitting across the room and at a glance have an idea of what is going on. Occasionally stuff breaks, then I either trot over to Target or wait to find it in a rummage sale.

I never buy no-stick because the coating degrades fast. Also if you preheat the pan and forget about it, or boil it dry, then the no-stick coating creates a vapor which is not pleasant.

If I desired to stock a kitchen today, then I would go the All Clad route. Last spring I was interested in the thread by Gypsy Boy from the Chicago board about some pots he was considering. These French imports looked lovely and functional.

Anyway, my old standby for finding great deals in the 'wants' department is e-Bay.

G Wiv wrote:[My one tip for All-clad, cast iron and most any pan that does not have a non-stick finish, maintenance is to clean the inside periodically with a mixture of lemon juice and kosher salt. The salt is slightly abrasive, without scratching, and the lemon juice cleans and sparkles. (I sound like a advert. )

I did a brass bowl yesterday with vinegar and kosher salt. It never occurred to me to try it on stainless. Do you think the vinegar and lemon juice are interchangeable for this purpose?

Thanks for the tips everyone. A & A I have another question. I had looked at the Macy's site (which, you may note, now includes a bigger saucepot as a bonus) and can't tell for sure one of the most basic things. Are these copper bottomed? After year of dealing with my mother's Revere Ware (which, I confess, she's still using after 50 years) I'm wary of the cleaning involved).

With non-stick pans, one should not preheat very much without any fat in the pan -- if you are going to fry/saut� at very high heat, stainless steel will do the job without stinking and without ruinous sticking, so long as you allow the food to caramalise properly (sustained high heat, so no overcrowding; also no fidgeting and jiggling of pan or food in the pan).

Non-stick pans are not really made for high temperature saut�ing (indeed, the non-stick coating seems, if anything, to inhibit caramalisation). Rather, they are best for lower temperature pan frying, most especially to my mind the cooking of eggs, also various kinds of fish, and also potatoes in preparations such as Bratkartoffeln, which I always make with success in my large, heavy-bottomed non-stick. Nowadays, non-stick pans have even made their way into professional kitchens for certain uses (e.g., Mario Batali says that they are used in his restaurants for all frittata's). In addition to allowing non-stick cooking at lower temperatures (esp. of eggs), they are, of course, extremely easily cleaned. All the things one can do with a non-stick pan, one can do in a more traditional way in a well-seasoned cast iron pan (I have two of them as well but over the years have come to use them less), but the conditioning is essential and can't be neglected.

Again, the non-sticks do wear out but that's just the price of getting good results with no hastle about cleaning and conditioning. Non-stick pans of pretty good quality can be found at decent prices; if you buy anything non-stick, do not pay a huge amount for it, or else two or three or five years down the road (depending on how often you use it and how careful you are in using it), you'll be unhappy about having to retire it when it's really time to do so.

RE BELGIQUE: No, no copper bottom visible on the ones we have; in any event, what one sees is stainless steel coating. By the way, in the original Belgique set I got, there was an excellent non-stick pan (now, alas, long retired, though still fondly preserved in the back of a cabinet).

A

My obligatory plug for a nonstick skillet:

Farberware Millennium Stainless 12" nonstick:

Amazon product page

I've got one (which my mom has used) and it's lovely.

Unfortunately, the new model (with "soft-touch" handle) won't take oven temperatures over 350 degrees. That being said, it's rare that I've needed to slide the pan into the oven above that temperature. My model has a solid stainless handle, without the soft-touch thing, so I've never worried.

My advocacy has always been for mix and match rather than an all-clad set. I've just heavily pushed all-clad as the base for the mixing and matching: All clad for the roasting pan and skillet, and perhaps for the stockpot and some saucepans.

The only problem, of course, is that it's awfully expensive stuff. Because of that, it may be wise to buy all-clad seconds from the factory store: Cookware 'n' More - AllClad

What's a windsor pan used for that makes it different from any other saucepan?

Thanks for the link to the seconds store, Ed.

Thanks for the heads-up about keeping an eye open at TJ Maxx and Marshalls.

Ann Fisher wrote:My priorities are even heating, dishwasher safe ( which eliminates Calphalon as far as I can tell), cool and comfortable handles, ability for at least some of the pans to go into the oven or under a broiler, not too heavy, not obscenely expensive.

Hi Ann,

I would not recommend buying cookware that can withstand your dishwasher, or more appropriately, your dishwasher detergent. Dishwater detergent contains Lye, which will make small pocket marks in all good-conducting metals. This will lead to less even heating, as only part of the food in your pan will be directly touching the conducting metal. So either you're going to make pocket holes in good pans, or you're cooking in bad-conducting metals and surfaces if you stick with pans to throw in the dishwasher, IMHO.

I would also not recommend non-stick, as the cooking surface is plastic and does not conduct as well as metals. Sure, non-stick can be easier, but you do lose some performance in not having a cooking surface that more efficiently transmits the heat level to your food. However, non-stick works fine for things like eggs where you don't need as high of a temperature and the risks of sticking are high. In general, the flame goes to the metal, which should be nice and conductive to both distribute the heat evenly and directly, to the food. The most conductive metal used in cookware is copper, but I think you have to have a pretty thick layer of copper (beneath a stainless cooking surface) for it to make a difference over stainless alone. After copper comes aluminum, then stainless.

I've had a good experience with Calphalon's commercial hard anodized, which they do not produce anymore. However, you can still find it on amazon.com for $20-30/pan, which I think is a good deal. I use comet to clean it, which is almost a nuclear bomb level of cleansing, but you can only use comet on the hard-anodized aluminum surface I think. Calphalon's new stuff is much more expensive (or reasonable for you All-Clad shoppers), and I'm really not sure it gets you a whole lot more in value. I've never cooked on All-Clad, but I find the handles awkward to hold.

Good luck!

disclosure: I did get most of my information about Calphalon from a friend who works there, but I sure don't want to act or sound like a shill for them.

For non-stick, I do like Berndes. The 10-inch fry pan is great. We'll have to replace it eventually, but it's been five years and the coating is still intact.

Hello. I must agree with Gary about All-Clad. It's simply the best stuff I've ever used for cooking. No problem with the clean up at all.

Also must agree with having some cast iron in your collection. I've had good luck at yard sales. Just check the back to make sure you're getting Lodge or something of that nature.

I would like to recommend a Caphlon "Everthing" pan. I bought it back when they were calling it a "Pallea" pan. Loooong time ago. I use it almost daily. Good for a quick braising, taking the water out of fresh tomatoes for sauce, roasting meats, etc. I really, really love this pan. I've had it for over 15 years and it still going like a soldier. One of the best buys ever at around 75 - $80 years ago. They generally sell for $100 at Chef's catalog.

I would also like to recommend getting a couple Le Creuset au gratins. These, too, get used daily - roasting veggies, potatoes, tomatoes, etc. They're expensive but I've had both for over 15 years and they've held up beautifully.

Regards,

Barbara

Pucks Bistro- i got a set of the Bistro on the recommendation of a friend in the catering business, and it has been ok. My only complaint is that the handles tend to get hot. All the pans heat evenly and hold heat well, the non-stick is good too. I have one piece of the farberware millenium, and it too is good, without the handle issue (I have the solid metal handle). The puck sets are remarkably cheap, and other than the box, his name only appears on the bottom of the pots and pans, so you needn't be too concerned.
-Will

HI,

Once upon a time I kept birds whose home base was in the kitchen. As a subscriber to Avian magazine there were frequent articles about the tragedies caused by non-stick coatings. When they heat without anything on them, they produce a gas which causes birds to die faster than we can detect the problem. Since that time teflon coatings have been banned at Casa de Cathy. We have since acquired pets higher up the food chain: cat, which is more tolerant of teflon off-gassing.

I cook eggs and omelets on regular pans without any problem, so I have never been inclined to buy non-stick surfaces.

&&&

Your son Ed is right about mix and match. Buy the best pot and pan for the application. I would likely follow whatever Cook's Illustrated suggests especially as they bow to no advertiser. My favorite stock pot is a 3+ gallon stainless steel beauty I bought at Costco with a thick bottom and glass top. I use it for jelly making because it is too tall for any overflow. I have had zero problems keeping it clean.

Your kitchen is a working kitchen. If you had the virgin kitchen with all the trimmings and all you do is boil water, then "Everything must match" would be a driving force. You're smarter than that!

Cathy2 wrote: When they heat without anything on them, they produce a gas which causes birds to die faster than we can detect the problem

A modern, but non-halal method...

As I said, they're not designed for high temperature cooking; high temps don't even call for them. Their virtue is at lower temperatures and for someone who specifically says they're looking for pans that are easy to clean and maintain, I think they're an infinitely better choice than cast iron skillets, as wonderful as those are.

Antonius

My basic rule on kitchenware: If it can't go in the dishwasher, I don't want it. Life is too short to scrub pots.

I like nonstick for many uses and I've never had a problem with fumes (I don't keep birds). You just don't heat them empty.

Most of my nonstick is cheap, but it's held up very well -- we're still using some West Bend aluminium pots my husband had before we were married (20 years next spring). I don't think these are made anymore but another Wisconsin brand (Regal? I think they have an outlet in Kenosha) makes similar thick aluminium pots, and Wearever makes fine commercial nonstick frying pans (although they do warp a bit sometimes so not the best choice for an electric stove).

Aluminium is a great heat conductor but you mostly don't want to use it without some sort of coating on the cooking surface because it reacts with acids. My biggest stockpot is aluminium, however.

I use nonstick for eggs and other delicate cooking tasks as well as for sticky confectionary.

I have some Corning Visionware that I hardly ever use and some French White that mostly gets used in the microwave. I adored my clear glass double boiler but it gets little use nowadays as most of its functions can be accomplished in the microwave.

G Wiv wrote:All-clad, listen to your son, buy All-clad

I've used and abused our All-clad LTD for 16-years

I need to replace a few pans and have been looking at the All-Clad line per your recommendation. I do own an All-Clad stainless saute pan that I am very pleased with. It is not the LTD, just plain stainless. Why should I get the LTD over the stainless?

Also, has anyone seen the "Simply Calphalon" line (not the Calphalon One). It's weight and construction seem comparable to All-Clad and is much less expensive. I like that the domed lids are glass.

Bill/SFNM

I too will agree with mix and match. I have a combination of my grandmother's cast iron skillets (how's that for well-seasoned), a set of Belgique, also inherited from Grandma, but never used, one non-stick 10" saute pan, a few Staub, one Le Creuset, some odd Calphalon pieces including a perfectly seasoned omelet pan, and my great love, copper with stainless lining. I would recommend the copper, but given your parameters, I would say go with the All-Clad. And like Andy, I do put mine in the dishwasher even with a copper base into the dishwasher to no ill effect.

Bill/SFNM wrote:Also, has anyone seen the "Simply Calphalon" line (not the Calphalon One). It's weight and construction seem comparable to All-Clad and is much less expensive. I like that the domed lids are glass.

I have the 3 qt. Simply Calphalon Sautee Pan. I received it as a gift last year and at first I was a tad skeptical. I figured that any pan someone would buy me as a gift (without me asking for one) was too inexpensive to be of good quality.

I was wrong. This is a very good pan. 18/10 stainless steel. Solid construction, comfortable handle. It has become one of my "go to" everyday pans. It does tend to stain rather easily, but a little bit of "Barkeepers Friend" and some elbow grease and it looks like new.

Best,
EC

My two cents: We got a 12" All-Clad non-stick skillet as a wedding gift. Over a few short years, the surface went bad -- real bad. We took it back to Bed, Bath, & Beyond this past weekend -- with the original receipt! -- and they gave us a brand new one, no questions asked. Gotta love the lifetime warranty! (Gotta hate how quickly the pan went bad -- we thought we were taking good care of it ... ?)

Also, I think someone else mentioned the Farberware Millenium non-stick skillet. That is the large non-stick skillet recommended by our friends at Cook's Illustrated / America's Test Kitchen:

http://www.americastestkitchen.com/EquipmentCorner/888.shtml

At only $30, it is hard to ignore. If BBB hadn't replaced our All-Clad skillet, we definitely would have bought a new Farberware.

Good luck, and have fun!

All-Clad is the way to go. Some of it is heavy but just be careful with what you chose. The stainless steel is dishwasher safe and fabulous. For non-stick I prefer Calphalon - however non-stick is NOT dishwasher safe.

Good luck.

BTW - you will find a great deal on All-Clad sets and I find they are usually well balanced with the right pieces. Of course if it has things you don't want or won't use - it won't be a deal.

Bill/SFNM wrote:Why should I get the LTD over the stainless?

Bill,

The main reason we bought LTD (anodized aluminum exterior) as opposed to Stainless (stainless steel exterior) is that 16-years ago All-Clad did not offer stainless. All the new pieces we have purchased over the years have been LTD, mainly so our set matches.

My parents have a full set of All-Clad stainless and I have not noticed a difference in functionality between Stainless and LTD. The main advantage LTD has over Stainless is the anodized aluminum exterior is basically impervious to dings, scratches, etc.

My parents All-Clad Stainless is 4-5 years old, very (very) lightly used and shows outside wear. Our LTD is 16-years old, fairly heavily used and still looks, if not new and shiny, at least acceptable.

In summary, my experience suggests the main difference between LTD and Stainless is cosmetic, not functional.

Hope this helps.

Enjoy,
Gary

On the topic of non-stick cookware, I've seen Anolon touted as the creme-de-la-creame ... specifically by Sur La Table. Does anyone have experience or opinions on their non-stick versus other brands. Seems they're towards the pricier end of the non-stick spectrum.

Many thanks,

rien

G Wiv wrote:

Bill/SFNM wrote:Why should I get the LTD over the stainless?

Bill,

The main reason we bought LTD (anodized aluminum exterior) as opposed to Stainless (stainless steel exterior) is that 16-years ago All-Clad did not offer stainless. :) All the new pieces we have purchased over the years have been LTD, mainly so our set matches.

My parents have a full set of All-Clad stainless and I have not noticed a difference in functionality between Stainless and LTD. The main advantage LTD has over Stainless is the anodized aluminum exterior is basically impervious to dings, scratches, etc.

My parents All-Clad Stainless is 4-5 years old, very (very) lightly used and shows outside wear. Our LTD is 16-years old, fairly heavily used and still looks, if not new and shiny, at least acceptable.

In summary, my experience suggests the main difference between LTD and Stainless is cosmetic, not functional.

Hope this helps.

Enjoy,
Gary

Gary, Cook's Illustrated and others have pointed out that the biggest disadvantage of nonstick cookware is the inability to sear, along with the resulting loss of fond for sauces -- does the anodized aluminum have this problem or can you get that good color? I don't have any experience with it and will probably be hinting around to the relatives for cookware come those end-of-year holidays. :)

I have both an All-Clad stainless set and the All-Clad Emeril line of non-stick. Both sets get used frequently and I have not had any problems with putting either in the dishwasher. I do concur that the non-stick coating prohibits fond and decreased the browning effect while searing. I have also noticed that the stainless set is beginning to show signs of exterior wear unlike the hard anodized coating on my non-sticks. I do fully recommend any of the All-Clad editions.

sidenote: I am in no way expressing any praise for Emeril. That particular set was purchased for me as a gift a couple of years ago. However when I was able to use the included stainless steel hanging pot rack it looked awesome.

Flip