The Hungry Detective

Chris Cognac's show "The Hungry Detective" has started on the Food Network and I have a few opinions that I thought I'd share, in the hopes of seeing what other's think.

For a lot of different reasons, I like this guy and I like this show. Mainly due to the fact that he's a localized food writer/enthusiast/blogger/etc. If he lived in Chicago, I'm sure he'd be an active member of this forum. Watching this show is like watching "one of us" get national exposure I appreciate the fact that the Food Network recognizes the value of amateur food-hunting that's coming from a fat, bald guy rather than someone perky and cute. I can't picture Rachel Ray walking up to a hot dog stand, asking for their most unique item, and eating a hot dog and grilled fish cake on a roll.

A few minor criticisms:

--The half-hour format is a bit limiting. I'd almost rather see occassional 90-minute specials about a city than 30-minute weekly installments.

--He takes tiny, dainty bites of his food and starts a long, nuanced critique of what he's eating, practically before he swallows what he bit. He needs to "sell it" a little.

--I think he referred to "tahini" as "tzatziki" twice during the Philadelphia episode. It's unlikely that he was eating tzatziki since it was a Persian restaurant and the owner mentioned their tahini.

Best,
Michael

I like the show, and the guy, too. In fact, when watching the last episode of Alton Brown's "Feasting on Asphalt" (where the Hungry Detective was Alton's fixer), I remarked to beth that "this guy should really have his own show". And lo, he does.

I agree on all your points. However, I was pretty disappointed in one part of the Las Vegas episode: Instead of going to, say, Memphis Championship Barbecue or the Salt Lick, he ended up at Ellis Island. Now, I haven't been to either. And maybe someone who has been to both will contradict me, but based on the footage in the show and what I've seen online, elsewhere, I'd prefer both to Ellis Island.

But who knows.

gleam wrote:I agree on all your points. However, I was pretty disappointed in one part of the Las Vegas episode: Instead of going to, say, Memphis Championship Barbecue or the Salt Lick, he ended up at Ellis Island. Now, I haven't been to either. And maybe someone who has been to both will contradict me, but based on the footage in the show and what I've seen online, elsewhere, I'd prefer both to Ellis Island.

But who knows.

Ed,

You are 100% correct on that. Ellis Island's ribs were meat jello ribs. They made no bones about that. I got the feeling that featuring Ellis Island was a quid pro quo for their lodging accommodations or something alone those lines. If I were the producer, I think I would have chosen a more upscale hotel to have to do a trade out with. I thought the places on the Vegas show were mostly poor choices. We've had much better ones featured here on LTH (if I do say so myself). The Philly show was a little better.

I have fond memories of Ellis Island, if only because four years ago it was one of the only places for karaoke near the strip. I was there with four female friends who were all hit on by the same guy. His opening line was "I have an artificial leg," which he then proceeded to take off and put on the table. Classy!

I'm pretty sure I would never want to eat there.

I kind of have to disagree. While I like the whole "Everyman's Perspective" he takes, his food descriptions are rather cliche and vague. But that's just me.

And while his picks in Vegas weren't exactly the best ones, it was nice to see him do some off-Strip venues that don't get all the hype on Food Network, places that are often forgotten in a town of Guy Savoys and Bradley Ogdens.

Joyful House is good, but watching him eat the equivalent of beef and broccoli (or mongolian beef or whatever that was) was kind of disappointing, I guess. Show me the off the menu items, show me what they do best besides American Chinese food.

gleam wrote: And maybe someone who has been to both will contradict me, but based on the footage in the show and what I've seen online, elsewhere, I'd prefer both to Ellis Island.

But who knows.

I do not watch TV so I do not know anything about the show.

Ellis Island is the #1 VALUE in Las Vegas according to AT LEAST 50 Las Vegas websites. To me, the food is decent and provides a GREAT value for the price. However, it is NO better than good cheap eating. Eliis Island is the 2nd MOST HYPED restaurants in Las Vegas.

stevez wrote:You are 100% correct on that. Ellis Island's ribs were meat jello ribs. They made no bones about that.

Steve,

Ellis Island's Chef Larry Bowman flat out tells the Hungry Detective they steam the ribs, at which point I swear the Hungry Detective gave an odd look, then goes on to say after steaming they "slow cook" the ribs. All the while flames are, literally, licking around the meat.

Were I in Vegas Ellis Island would be bery low on my list of restaurants to try, though if I had just lost a bunch-o-money gambling the half-slab ribs, half chicken, corn, beans, slaw, grilled toast and spring of parsley for $6.95 might suddenly become appealing.

Enjoy,
Gary

eatchicago wrote:A few minor criticisms:

Michael,

I think one of us needs to start wearing the Tin Foil Hat again as I had Exactly the same thoughts, on watching the Hungry Detective in Philadelphia. I mean, really, demure little bites of a cheese steak sandwich? Tzatziki instead of tahini? The HD also seems to be infected with the Food Network Descriptor Virus, where one finds it necessary to immediately spew out 25 words about every damn thing they put in their mouth.

That said, I like the show, love the guy, as Michael said, the food network needs more "fat bald guys".

Enjoy,
Gary

gmonkey wrote:And while his picks in Vegas weren't exactly the best ones, it was nice to see him do some off-Strip venues that don't get all the hype on Food Network, places that are often forgotten in a town of Guy Savoys and Bradley Ogdens.

While I agree with what you are saying, it was a very weak effort. Where was Lotus of Siam, for example? In Philly, he consulted Holly Eats, in Vegas, he should have looked here.

Chris Cognac is a regular poster at eGullet and there's a dedicated thread for his show. I'm sure he's fielding questions there. There was a lso a thread about his show before it started airing as well with him asking for suggestions and such.

Chris is an eGullet regular and there have been two threads going on there, both before and after the filming began. In the Philly episode he only mentions Holly Moore but a number of eGulleters appear in the backround. He got a lot of input from people all over but I saw nothing about his trip to Chicago which was filmed in early October.

I have to say I enjoyed the only ep I've caught (Philly) more than similar shows by RaeRay and the Deen boys, let alone the much tackier "Secret Life Of..." and "Best Of" shows. He really seems to like the food and eating, rather than the typical mix of food porn shots, Mister Rogers-level industrial footage and "Yum-O" that seems to fill more than half the prime time hours on FoodTV these days.

Actually, it's interesting that there have been two Cheesesteak shows in recent weeks: The HD had a version with sliced, rather than chopped steak, and Bobby Flay's throwdown was up against someone who used a sharp provolone and broccoli rabe on the sammy, which sounds pretty good (but will need to be followed by several Altoids if I'm going back to the office).

The names of the purveyors escape me, but hey, I'll look 'em up on the web before I go to Philly again.

Um, that was Bobby Flay v. Tony Luke, a personal favorite of mine and others here. The sandwich was a steak, Italian, which places the condiments from a roast pork, Italian, on a steak. The pork sammy is much superior. You are correct about the Altoids. A shower and some Scope might also be in order after a Tony Luke's Italian, unless everyone had one.

Hot Doug told me that the Hungry Detective was in his place filming on the morning of Saturday 10/14 (IIRC -- maybe some of you were there). Doug said he'd post the air date on his website, but it should be fairly soon, I reckon.

The Food Network is doing a lot of test marketing surrounding this program. Just received an invitation to watch it next Friday.

I'll be interested in seeing the Chicago episode. I had a few convos with the production company but sadly didn't make the cut.

Damn, how did I miss this forum? Glad most of you like the show...we do our best....we try to spread the food and prices around a bit...as far as Ellis Island..you were right, when he said "steamed ribs" I was a bit suprised...but they were pretty good, and along with a 1/2 chicken and sides for $6.95 a fantastic bargain and that is why we featured it...we always try to find the best value in the food we feature...such as Hot Dougs...the dogs were great and prices good....

Eating on camera....its an art...we and I are doing our best to get it right....there are many factors involved...like is the thing I am eating going to explode all over the place....is the dog going to fall out of the bun (as it did at Hot Dougs)...plus I have to chew, think of what to say and start saying it...all while worrying if I have sauce or something else stuck to my face...all in about 15 seconds....

Vegas was the pilot and Philly was number 2...Atlanta is next...its got a good mix of food....I really like the way we shot Chicago....its not been edited yet, but we had great guests and food...

We try to keep it safely off the beaten path and feature something that most people will like...I must say, one thing I like about the show is no "rules" when it comes to eating....if I want plastic cheese on my fries, I get it....if I want a 20 oz NY steak at Myron and Phil....well then I can just get that too!

WE feature some cocktails etc....a great michalada in DC...

as far as the whole "free room" comp thing....nope, not ever....we stayed at the palace station in Vegas and paid for it....and the lovely Essex Inn in Chicago!

ChrisCognac wrote:Damn, how did I miss this forum?

Um, not paying attention to people offering you advice?

On Jun 14 2006 in your topic on eGullet, Nancy Sexton wrote:Chris or anyone:

For Chicago, please visit:

LTHForum.com

This is the best Chicago-specific forum for foodie discussions - so you can get up-to-date advice on places to check out, whenver you (or anyone else) visits.

ChrisCognac wrote:Hot Dougs...

We try to keep it safely off the beaten path

Off the beaten path? Hot Doug's has been covered by media ranging from network TV to Food & Wine to the New York Times and even the Christian Science Monitor -- not to mention every food blogger ever to visit Chicago. Rock bands pay tribute to it. The only fast-food places in Chicago that have built up more national press are Superdawg, which opened in 1948, and McDonald's.

Wow off to a great start here!....thanks! I do listen and give credit to as many people as I can...so do me a favor and chill with the wise ass comments...

I wanted to post here to talk about anything ranging from the show to production etc...not get my balls busted...I am cool with any and all critics regarding the show, me etc....they can only make it better by giving me honest advice...but come on....lets start off on a nice tone please...I am doing all I can to help people out along the way.

Uh, welcome to LTHForum, Chris.

Some of the earlier posts were friendlier...

Thanks for joining the discussion, Chris. I'm glad you found our forum and I hope if (when) you return to Chicago, you'll let us know so we can toss some ideas your way.

I completely understand that it has got to be difficult to eat on camera and talk about it at the same time. I always figure that it's the kind of thing that some creative editing could improve on. Irregardless, a very minor criticism.

I enjoy the show. It has a sensibility that is a positive move for the Food Network. I hope you're successful.

Best,
Michael

yea the eating thing was and still is one of the most difficult things, its actually when I am the most nervous....it took several shows to get it down...we had pressure from many angles on how to eat...I just wanted to dig in, but the focus groups were not as into that....so we had to find a happy medium....I think in the last few shows (chicago included as it was #10) we got it down.....its funny, cause in the cheesesteak thing, when I am eating its 130 am...I had only 5 hrs of sleep from the 16 hr shoot the day before and had eaten a bunch of cheesesteaks....and we had just had a few drunken people escorted away who were giving the crew a problem.....

Ahh....it all looks so nice on the screen....if people only knew that half of it that goes on....there are some great bloopers from the show too!

That's funny, the focus groups didn't like eating on a food show. I knew someone who worked on HBO's Real Sex series, I'll have to ask her if the focus groups didn't like... oh never mind.

Anyway, have you done Kansas City yet? Probably not. Before you do, read this.

Chris,

Nice to have you on LTH, welcome.

ChrisCognac wrote:as far as Ellis Island..you were right, when he said "steamed ribs" I was a bit surprised...

Glad to hear, as a long time low and slow BBQ guy, I wasn't simply projecting when I noticed your odd look at Ellis Island when Chef Larry Bowman mentioned steam.

ChrisCognac wrote:Eating on camera....its an art...we and I are doing our best to get it right....there are many factors involved...

I imagine it's tough to eat on camera, though seeing a large guy with a large sandwich taking a petite little nibble seemed slightly out of character for a Hungry Detective.

Far as Hot Doug's, he's as popular as the pope in Chicago, but the guys a riot, has a unique outlook on encased meat and runs one of my favorite dog stands. Hot Doug's is well deserving of a spot on your show, though Superdawg, or a few others, would have been equally good choices.

You really go to Myron and Phil's? If so, interesting choice. I like the place, as much, if not more, for the chopped liver and tables with three generations, sometimes four, of families than the food. When my paternal grandfather visited Chicago Myron and Phil's was a must-stop. The man was in his element, schmooze-zone central.

Once again, nice to have you on LTHForum.

Enjoy,
Gary

Myron and Phil was just what I was looking for..a multi generationsteak place....it was classic, the place was packed w seniors, then went on to a younger crowd...and a great bargain as well...cant get what I got there for the same $ at any of the major chain steak houses...

Eating on camera....uggh....each dish presents a unique problem, that is truely unknown to me until I take a bite, then try to eat as fast as I can (with no drinking liquid I might add) then talk...and try to sound "happy, hungry, satisfied, excited...etc) all in a few seconds....and then "wrap up" the scene...there is no script so everything I say is off the top of my head...

The whole thing was aan amazing experience to say the least...its kinda strange now getting recognized in public....I as at the wine store today and the guy in line turns to me and says..Hey are you the Hungry Detective?....I smiled, shook his hand and said..yes I am....

Its gonna be a fun few months!

I am off to Vegas w my wife for our 11th anniversery ( my wife is a saint for watching our 2 boys 5 and 10) for the whole summer while I was off filming....we are gonnna do tasting menu's at Adam Sobel and Sean Griffins restaurants (Guy Savoy and Niros)....with no cameras!.....

LAZ wrote:

ChrisCognac wrote:Damn, how did I miss this forum?

Um, not paying attention to people offering you advice?

On Jun 14 2006 in your topic on eGullet, Nancy Sexton wrote:Chris or anyone:

For Chicago, please visit:

LTHForum.com

This is the best Chicago-specific forum for foodie discussions - so you can get up-to-date advice on places to check out, whenver you (or anyone else) visits.

ChrisCognac wrote:Hot Dougs...

We try to keep it safely off the beaten path

Off the beaten path? Hot Doug's has been covered by media ranging from network TV to Food & Wine to the New York Times and even the Christian Science Monitor -- not to mention every food blogger ever to visit Chicago. Rock bands pay tribute to it. The only fast-food places in Chicago that have built up more national press are Superdawg, which opened in 1948, and McDonald's.

I consider this callous reply to a new poster to be THE greatest transgression ever on this forum. Are you kidding me? I’m sure I speak for many LTHers implicitly when I say that I am hugely embarrassed by this exchange.

Well, looks like I have to go have a talk with my Tivo. Not sure how I missed this show.

Chris-
Really liked your spot on Alton Brown's "Feasting on Ashphalt", so I am guessing this show is along the same lines as that segment?

SO, if you don't mind me asking, did your spot on Alton show lead to your own show, or was it already in the making and that was your introduction to Food Network viewers?

Jamie

What I don't like about TV food features in general is the total positive nature of it. What you love about a guy like Chris Cognac is that because of his everyman appearance and cop background, you hope that unlike the pretty food celebs, he'll call it like it is.

Yet, I get the feeling that if Chris bit in to something and it was mediocre, he would have to say "Mmm, that hits the spot. It's really good" (maybe I'm wrong, Chris could you comment on this?) thus providing coverage that isn't useful to a viewer looking for real information.

In that sense, it's like a paid advertisement or to use a now trite culinary adage "food porn".

I understand the tension of this...after all if you ask a restauranteur if you can eat their best stuff and then film in their restaurant, it's tough to be like, "well that's just OK"...there's a scene in Feasting on Asphalt where Alton Brown kind of makes it look like he's enjoying the brain sandwich, but later on-I can't remember if it was in the same episode or I read it- he say's it wasn't that good...that seemed like a first for me...that they actually admit something was ok. It's also why you gotta like Bourdain...there's nothing like that scene in Cooks Tour where he's eating the Tete de Veau and he just doesn't like it and hides the uneaten portion in his napkin when the chef comes out

Bobby Flay always has moments like that, where you can see he just doesn't like something, but he kind of grimaces and pretends to because there's no way out.

Whether you love or hate Check Please, food criticism, blogs or this forum, the one thing that works is that people have no problem calling it like it is. I'm not saying you have to be mean spirited, but fair and honest and transparent.

I'd love to see a feature show, where you go in and call it like it is...no reason you can't do it. A restauranteur might get angry, and never let you film again, but honestly, if it really is that bad, someone should say so. The emperor still has no clothes, or more appropriately, the ribs are really meat jello, even on food network.

Yet, I get the feeling that if Chris bit in to something and it was mediocre, he would have to say "Mmm, that hits the spot. It's really good" (maybe I'm wrong, Chris could you comment on this?) thus providing coverage that isn't useful to a viewer looking for real information.

Don't you think that's because they're mainly filming in prescreened spots?

When something has a different format (as Check, Please does) you get negative commentary. And you could argue that Food Network steers its shows toward formats that will mainly consist of boosterish, that-was-yummy moments. But I'm not exactly surprised that, given that format, they don't come to Chicago, scout a bunch of hot dog places, and then shoot in the one that sucked.

It is entertaining, though, when everything sucks and there's no getting around the fact, as all the food in Iceland did for Bourdain....

Pre-screening is still subject to hype. I love Hot Doug's, but I've had dry sausages there before, and some of us have had off ribs at Honey 1 on more than one occasion....

From his body language, I got the feeling that Chris was lukewarm on the Thuringer and fishcake...