JJ..... that was a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.

Actually back in 1968, thru 1972. My wife gave me a choice, her and the baby, or the restaurant. Back then I was a minorty owner and what was called the head chef. A small white tablecloth place, that I loved, but loved my wife even more.

I went from the restaurant business to food brokerage, then out of the food business. But I still miss my place.

One thing I learned is to give the customer what they want. I would have a special, and there might be very few orders for it. I learned, not what I wanted but what the customer wants. It was not my job to educate them, since they already knew what they wanted, and I could not afford to discard food. I wanted to have a place that would last.

Some people on this board say that a small place goes out of business because of a franchised place. No, they went out of business because they did not give the customer what they wanted, be that price point or food the customer would enjoy. The franchised place either gives the customer what they want or they would go out of business, franchise on not. Thank you Marshall Field for that lesson in customer service.

I am going to go off a bit, and say that while my opinion does not count, since I have not studied smoked ribs for five years, I would say that my customers opinions counted. I would serve up at least 25 orders of blanched/grilled ribs, you know, meat jello, on a weekend. If they did not like my ribs, they would have gone somewhere else.

Some people on here said that only the opinion of those that have studied for years counted, for example a TV repair man. who fixed TVs every day, as apposed to some one who does it a couple of times as year.... well as long as I can remember, I have eaten three meals a day, times 365, times 59 years, gives me a lot of experience, and makes my opinion worth as much as anyone's. And I am less than happy that some people on here think that can tell me what I should like or not like, based on their experience or study. Some quick math tells me I have eaten over 64,000 meals, that that is enough experience, and should be for anyone.

sabersix wrote:The franchised place either gives the customer what they want or they would go out of business, franchise on not. Thank you Marshall Field for that lesson in customer service.

Maybe true in many cases, but keep in mind that sophisticated advertising does a very good job of TELLING people what they want. Chain restaurants have that going for them; they can create an audience for their food through effective advertising, while the little guy faces exactly the problem you note. The little guy either gives them what they want or somehow finds a way to cultivate a taste for something out of the ordinary.

sabersix wrote:Some people on here said that only the opinion of those that have studied for years counted, for example a TV repair man. who fixed TVs every day, as apposed to some one who does it a couple of times as year.

Oh, come on! You are only sort of quoting me here, and you know full well that's a misquote intended to paint me as a moron. (And before you have a chance to say it, if the shoe fits, I will wear it. But please don't resort to intellectual dishonesty in an attempt to prove my incompetence.)

In any event, my analogy was to compare a trained TV repairman to an obstetrician, and ask which one you would want to repair your TV and which you would want to deliver your baby. I said absolutely nothing about amateur TV repairmen. Nor did my point have anything to do with the frequency with which an expert exercises that expertise. My point was that there is some minimal level of expertise you want to have in your expert. Either you can do it, or you can't. So, maybe there are folks who only repair TVs two days a year, but do a great job; it's not luck, but training and intelligence, that makes them able to do that -- the same training and intelligence that the 365-days-a-year TV repairman has, the same level of expertise.

Maybe in food, acquiring such expertise takes much less time, effort and training to obtain (I actually doubt that, with regard to many esoteric cuisines), but the point is, if you want an "A" grade recommendation, you need an "A" grade expert, whether it is TV repair (part-time or otherwise), obstetrics or BBQ. But to the extent you want to make a point about the ability of non-experts to weigh opinions on purely personal taste or opinion, I am actually all with you ... to the extent those opinions are expressed with some back-up and basis and are worth taking the time to read, and might perhaps sway my own opinion or encourage me to try something I've never tried before. But otherwise, at the risk of appearing a "snob," I really wish people would keep their worthless (as in "no worth to anyone but themselves") opinions to themselves. Opinions supported with illustrations, evidence, argumentation ... those are worthy of publication and consideration by others than the opiner him or herself.

If the only thing anybody ever did here was say "Ate at Place X. Sucked." or "Ate at Place Y. Great!" there would be no reason for this forum to exist. The attempts, admirable, pitiable or otherwise, of us posters to EXPLAIN our opinions is what makes the posts worth reading and this forum worth maintaining in the first place.

And I would draw your attention to the concluding paragraph of my post including the TV repairman analogy, in which I made ABSOUTELY CLEAR (I thought) that I don't think there is any objective reason for favoring "real" BBQ over the parboiled, the meat jello or any other variety of cooked meat, and that the education in one will not necessarily alter (nor should it) your tastes for the other. In fact, I expressed my sincere doubt that "education" in "real" BBQ either could or should sway a person's close-held opinions and tastes for cooked meats.

On the other hand, everyone should have a chance to explore and taste all the options, and the readily available, high-volume distributors of cooked ribs are not the ones doing the "real" BBQ smoking over wood style. People's BBQ education is incomplete, on average, in this country. Imagine if a whole group of people only had a sixth grade education and had to not only decide on our elected officials, but be them, as well. It worked for Jethro Bodine, but would you really want this group to dominate the electorate? What kind of choices are they going to make? And what kind of leaders? Will they even appreciate the decisions they are being asked to make? Nine times out of ten, this hypothetical group of imbeciles would just watch a couple of political attack ads and maybe an episode of Larry King, then hit the polls. Democracy in action! Now analogize to the "uneducated" diner; they simply don't understand the "issues" if they haven't had an opportunity to try all, or at least more than one of, the options. You say, the diners "know what they want." No. Absolutely, NO. They BELIEVE something about something that they want to believe. They have DESIRES. But unless they are educated about the options, they do not KNOW what they want, if they've only ever tried one possible option. This is why, in the interest of sustaining our democracy, we pay for the public education of our youth in matters of civic importance (or at least ideally we do).

If instead, you were saying that your customers had deep experience dining at BBQ sources throughout America, had tried and rejected those other styles, and wound up demanding "meat jello" or some other style of cooking, then I withdraw that statement. Those educated customers would have known what they were getting and what they were missing But I doubt you can say that. And I KNOW that if your goal is to make a profit, then pandering to the tastes of the people with the money is paramount. But places like Honey1 are trying to find a middle path, not pandering but instead promoting, in their small way, a different taste or style that is not promoted by others.

Not to rip the scab off this thread, but has anyone been to Il Covo lately? Most of the flaws mentioned in the iffy reviews (at least in TOC, Trib, etc.) were chiefly issues that should be ironed out over time.

I was just wondering if that has been the case?

We went tonight for dinner and it turns out they were having an "opening party". We had Bellinis and they served a little food as appetizers - gnocci (with a gorgonzola SAUCE), risotto with porcini, zucchini bruschetta, mushrooom pizza. The risotto was only OK, but everything else was nice.

The space is pretty and the people are nice. I spoke with one of the waiters and told him we lived around the corner, and he said they'd been open 2 months, and I said yeah, but we heard some funny reviews so I wanted to wait, and he said yeah that's what I told all my friends - wait and give us some time

sabersix wrote:JJ..... that was a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away.

Actually back in 1968, thru 1972. My wife gave me a choice, her and the baby, or the restaurant. Back then I was a minorty owner and what was called the head chef. A small white tablecloth place, that I loved, but loved my wife even more.

So, after reading this thread, I'm curious. What was the name of the place? Where was it? If it was going well, why'd your wife want you to give it up?

OK. We went.

Eh.

It was fine, but nothing more than that. David thinks it was boring. I'm not sure I agree. But I've had similar dishes elsewhere that were better.

We walked in on Saturday, 7 pm with a reservation. Downstairs was 1/3 full, and they seated us upstairs in the "lounge" - which was also 1/3 full. Odd. When we left it wasn't much more full.

Service was fine, though we did experience some oddness with the glassware (the server took our wine glasses away to bring bigger ones, and the ones she brought were soaking wet and dirty, so she took them away and spent an inordinate amount of time inspecting the new set, which I'm not sure were significantly bigger than our original glasses). The wine was room temp or warmer, which means they aren't keeping it well.

David thinks this place won't last that long. Given that they were only 1/3 full on Saturday (even on a Jewish holiday) I don't think he's wrong.

"The above comments, beg the question. Did those people that went to this "training wheel" restaurant receive a discount? No? So why should someone pay full price and receive less than their best efforts."

Actually, they DID receive a FULL DISCOUNT.. 100%..

I was there, had a great meal, and understood that this was a DRY RUN and things may not have been smooth..

and all we had to pay for was booze..which we supplied ourselves..

Pat Bruno from the sun-times LOVED the food there, and said that the service was great..

so there

thermal1976 wrote:"The above comments, beg the question. Did those people that went to this "training wheel" restaurant receive a discount? No? So why should someone pay full price and receive less than their best efforts."

Actually, they DID receive a FULL DISCOUNT.. 100%..

I was there, had a great meal, and understood that this was a DRY RUN and things may not have been smooth..

and all we had to pay for was booze..which we supplied ourselves..

Pat Bruno from the sun-times LOVED the food there, and said that the service was great..

so there

Welcome to LTH Forum. Hate to pick apart your first post, but do you personally know all of the posters who complained about Il Covo when it first opened? You claim they received a 100% discount. If so, maybe you can explain why the OP said the waiter made a "hurry up" gesture as the OP searched for a credit card.

As I am the original poster, let me make it absolutely clear that I received no discount. I did not attend a pre-opening, by-invitation event with free food. I ate at il covo as an ordinary customer and posted about my experience.

For the record, I find it surprising that a critic would accept free food from a new restaurant and announce to those in attendance that he LOVED it. I always thought that serious critics made a point of not accepting free meals so as not to compromise their objectivity. Has Bruno written a review of il covo, and if so did he disclose this fact?

I believe that pat bruno wrote a 2 page review in the friday sun-times a few weeks back..

I have been there twice since I last posted, and it seems to be getting better.

on another note, I had asked the waiter when they had officially opened, and he told me July 20th was the first "public" opening..
so, my apologies..but, your original post was dated 2 days after official opening, and therefore mistakes made by said establishment are to be expected..as for the waiter hurrying you for payment, I cannot forgive, or accept those kinds of nuances..I feel ya there..

And to the best of my knowledge, Pat Bruno does not announce when he shows up to a place for a review, so I highly doubt that his meal was comped by Il Covo..Probably by the paper he works for..

I do however believe that your initial post was a bit harsh, but maybe I have worked in the industry too long and am sensitive to when I hear people complain about things related..

happy scarfing...

here is a link of the review from Pat Bruno..10/20/06


http://www.suntimes.com/restaurants/rev ... antreviews

There are signs on the front of Il Covo saying that they are reopening on 4 June under new management and with a new menu. It doesn't say anything about whether the chef is the same.

leek wrote:There are signs on the front of Il Covo saying that they are reopening on 4 June under new management and with a new menu. It doesn't say anything about whether the chef is the same.

apropos of not much:

a couple months or so back I had reservations at Il Covo for myself plus friends who live pretty much right around the corner

their dogsitter flaked saving us from what I've later figured would have been a mediocre meal(upon reading posts...etc.)

it's always empty when we venture over that-aways to visit...not surprised it's gone...

We went last night, of course the Trib had said that day that it was good, so it was very busy. And also of course, their computers went down! One of the chefs came out to ask us about our order, saying the computers were down, and he seemed so upset! We told him it was ok, we weren't in any hurry. The bartender who opened our wine didn't give us a tasting pour, just poured us both full glasses (it was fine, but you should do that taste, just in case). They are going to change over the wine list, right now it's the same list as before (overpriced and not particularly interesting). The food was good, definitely more Italian than whatever they were doing before. The managers and owners were from Pizza DOC, and a few other places, but right now there are no pizzas on the menu. I had grilled veggies, DH had an arugala salad (his salad was oversalted, so now we know to ask for less salt). Mine was very good, but so big I barely had room for dinner. For some reason we got a comped dessert - panacotta. It was good. We ate at the bar, and they don't have their service for that location down, we definitely had the plate auction and the server sticking his arm in front of one person (nearly dunking his sleeve in the food) to deliver a plate to the other. I suspect they'll work this out.

I'll go back in a few weeks once they switch their wine list over (and make a reservation) and give them another try.

According to the "Dish" email from Chicago magazine:

Carol Johnson recently bought Il Covo (2152 N. Damen Ave.; 773-862-5555) from Jeff Greaves, Covo’s former owner and her former boss there. Johnson and her partners—two of whom were chefs at Pizza D.O.C. and Trattoria D.O.C.—have cleaned up the baffling Australian/Italian fusion menu in favor of straight-up Italian. (No more Moreton Bay bugs with spaghetti.) Johnson says the neighborhood loves the new simplicity. “We already have regulars and we have only been here two weeks. When people walk in, it’s like a big hug.” As for Greaves, he still owns the real estate and he’s delighted with the deal. “These people will do a much better job. Now I can eat out again. I have my life back.”

Australian/Italian fusion? I don't remember reading that!

Jeff Greaves used to be my neighbor. As I'm fairly certain he hasn't folded his mechanical engineering firm, it's most likely he was one of those restaurant owners who never should have been a restaurant owner.

According to the Reader, Il Covo "is much improved from its earlier days as an uninspired purveyor of Australian-Italian fusion cuisine."

The whole story.

My wife and went ther for dinner a couple weeks ago (late June) and while I never ate there before it changed management I think it must have improved.

Overall I would call it a good neighborhood Italian place. Everything we had was well prepared, but nothing blew us away. They have a lot of grilled items on the menu, the grilled vegetables with cheese and grilled seafood with balsamic reduction appetizers were both really good, not overcooked and well seasoned. I had gnochetti in a white wine lamb/garlic/shallot/tomato sauce that was solid, but not amazing. It's not something I've eaten before, and while it looked good on the menu I expected it to be a little more flavorful from the description. My wife had egg noodles in a duck/tomato/red wine sauce that was very good.

I wish I'd tried a grilled entree, since the grilled appetizers were really good. If you're in the area I think it is definitely worth checking out - and judging from the posts before it changed management it is a totally different experience.