KS Seafood ...The Formosa Tiger arrives

On the way to the LTH Christmas eve dinner at LWW I noticed a new restaurant had just opened in the Chinatown mall across from Mountain View Chef. I stopped in and had a brief conversation with the manager, Tom Wu, who revealed that the chef was from Taiwan . Based on that conversation and the wonderful looking food I saw on the tables, I vowed to get back ASAP. Previous commitments prevented me from going back yesterday, but there we were for dinner tonite.

KS Seafood lists Szechuan, Cantonese, Mandarin and even a few Thai dishes on it's English language menu mostly all familiar Chinatown stalwarts, but is really a Taiwanese restaurant in disguise..quite literally. When we arrived at about 8:30 the small room was about 3/4 full. I was anxious to try the Taiwanese specialties but was surprised to find not a single one listed in English. With the help of Mr. Wu ,our waitress and the oddly tinted pictures
in the Chinese menu (which lists over 100 dishes) we were able to put together a pretty spectacular meal.

Dinner began auspiciously with amuse bouche of a delicious fresh Taiwanese pickle and a small dish of sweet/salty peanuts (Taiwanese Beer nuts) which went really well together, and with the Sierra Nevada Christmas Ale I brought along. Appetizers included a beautifully arranged platter of four cold dishes...large shrimp marinated in rice wine, beef slices and maw in a garlicky chile sauce , sliced squid with a soy dipping sauce and a gently sweet pickled cuttle fish...all excellent, and a plate of lightly breaded salt and pepper squid garnished with cilantro.

Next came a delicate soup of fresh clams in a clear ginger scented broth which was understated and elegant, like a good consume. We followed with slivered beef and bamboo pith with a hint of chile, perfectly tender peapod sprouts with garlic, julienned fried baby eels served in a crispy heap, sweet and sour shrimp in a pineapple and smoked pork with garlic chives. Really a fine meal. Artful and refined . Definitely a great addition to the Chinatown scene. I saw lots of great looking dishes at other tables including bowls of noodles, "Three Cup Chicken" fragrant with Basil and platters of round flat pork buns everyone seemed to love leading me to suspect the menu likely holds many other pleasant surprises as well.

Sadly, unless you read Chinese you'll need the help of staff to get at these delights as not a single dish we had appeared on the English menu. I tried to explain to Mr. Wu that lots of other non Asians would probably love to try Taiwanese cuisine (which has always been underrepresented here) , eventually leading him to offer to try to provide English captions to the menu photos, which would be great. He also assures me that he would be happy to assist anyone else who might be interested .

KS Seafood is BYOB.

I'll be going back soon. Probably tomorrow.

kuhdo wrote:With the help of Mr. Wu ,our waitress and the oddly tinted pictures in the Chinese menu (which lists over 100 dishes) we were able to put together a pretty spectacular meal.

Kuhdo,

Sounds terrific, I can't wait to try KS, thanks for the interesting post.

Enjoy,
Gary

kuhdo wrote:Sadly, unless you read Chinese you'll need the help of staff to get at these delights as not a single dish we had appeared on the English menu. I tried to explain to Mr. Wu that lots of other non Asians would probably love to try Taiwanese cuisine (which has always been underrepresented here) , eventually leading him to offer to try to provide English captions to the menu photos, which would be great. He also assures me that he would be happy to assist anyone else who might be interested .

I think it's sad, too, that getting the really interesting stuff has to be such a trial for non-Chinese readers. This is certainly not a problem confined to KS Seafood, as we all know, so my complaint isn't with that restaurant specifically. Although Mr. Wu sounds friendly and I take him at his word that he'd be happy to assist anyone, one has to wonder why the stuff just isn't printed in English in the first place. The benign answer is that the proprietors of all the places with "secret" menus don't believe that their Anglo customers would be interested in these dishes, and don't want to trouble them or confuse them with choices of no relevance to them. But the truer answer, I suspect, is that there is an attitude prevalent (although not universal) among owners of Asian restaurants that is akin to Louis Armstrong's comment when asked to define jazz: "If you don't know what it is, don't mess with it." I think it's a way of preserving special status and special privileges for those who do read the language, or who are willing to work at seeking a translation. This motivation may not exist topmost in mind, but I do believe it's there as an undercurrent, and I think it's probably appreciated by the nationals who frequent the places. And I think it's regrettable. Not up there with the biggest problems facing the world today, but regrettable.

kudho,

Thanks for the report. I was enthused when you gave me a copy of their menu and I'm looking forward to checking out KS. The large Chinese-language listings are ripe for some translation (an endeavor I'd volunteer for, if not for the minor inconvenience of not knowing the language).

Best,
Michael

If anyone has a copy of the menu, I might be able to get it translated by one of my parental units.

Actually, I might take my mother there tonight, since we used to live in Taiwan and I'll bet she hasn't had Taiwanese food for awhile.

riddlemay wrote:

kuhdo wrote:Sadly, unless you read Chinese you'll need the help of staff to get at these delights as not a single dish we had appeared on the English menu. I tried to explain to Mr. Wu that lots of other non Asians would probably love to try Taiwanese cuisine (which has always been underrepresented here) , eventually leading him to offer to try to provide English captions to the menu photos, which would be great. He also assures me that he would be happy to assist anyone else who might be interested .

I think it's sad, too, that getting the really interesting stuff has to be such a trial for non-Chinese readers...

For how long has this place been open? And Mr. Wu said he would try to provide English captions. Give the guy a break; I imagine they had plenty to keep them busy opening up a new place.

Good thing The Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters is back in print...

germuska wrote:For how long has this place been open? And Mr. Wu said he would try to provide English captions. Give the guy a break; I imagine they had plenty to keep them busy opening up a new place.

If the reason for no translations at KS is the recency of the place's opening, I will certainly give them a break! As I said, my beef isn't really with KS, but only triggered by it. It was a general complaint, directed at all Asian restaurants that have "secret," native-language-only menus--most of which places have been open for a good long time.

germuska wrote:

riddlemay wrote:

kuhdo wrote:Sadly, unless you read Chinese you'll need the help of staff to get at these delights as not a single dish we had appeared on the English menu. I tried to explain to Mr. Wu that lots of other non Asians would probably love to try Taiwanese cuisine (which has always been underrepresented here) , eventually leading him to offer to try to provide English captions to the menu photos, which would be great. He also assures me that he would be happy to assist anyone else who might be interested .

I think it's sad, too, that getting the really interesting stuff has to be such a trial for non-Chinese readers...

For how long has this place been open? And Mr. Wu said he would try to provide English captions. Give the guy a break; I imagine they had plenty to keep them busy opening up a new place.

Good thing The Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters is back in print...

excellent suggestion as per The Eater's Guide...

I'm always happy to see it suggested...

riddlemay wrote:

germuska wrote:For how long has this place been open? And Mr. Wu said he would try to provide English captions. Give the guy a break; I imagine they had plenty to keep them busy opening up a new place.

If the reason for no translations at KS is the recency of the place's opening, I will certainly give them a break! As I said, my beef isn't really with KS, but only triggered by it. It was a general complaint, directed at all Asian restaurants that have "secret," native-language-only menus--most of which places have been open for a good long time.

Thankfully, we have a community of enthusiastic gastronomes that include people who work very hard, often times with the restaurant owners and cooks, to break down these cultural barriers so we can all enjoy a broader range of authentic tastes.

geli,
Please let us know if you go and if you're able to translate any of the menu. I have a copy if you need it.

Best,
Michael

Christopher Gordon wrote:excellent suggestion as per The Eater's Guide...

I'm always happy to see it suggested...

I'll admit that I only know it from Calvin Trillin. But in doing some googling to recall its exact title, I found an interesting memorial to its author, Jim McCawley, available as PDF, or rendered by Google into HTML.

The New York Times wrote:his pigs’ ears in garlic sauce remains etched in colleagues’ memories.

germuska wrote:

Christopher Gordon wrote:excellent suggestion as per The Eater's Guide...

I'm always happy to see it suggested...

I'll admit that I only know it from Calvin Trillin. But in doing some googling to recall its exact title, I found an interesting memorial to its author, Jim McCawley, available as PDF, or rendered by Google into HTML.

The New York Times wrote:his pigs’ ears in garlic sauce remains etched in colleagues’ memories.

I must admit that The Eater's Guide begins to resemble homework a tad close for comfort, but even a cursory study enlightens colloquial expression and even "branding" in Chinese restaurants.

It's merely a bonus that many of the research materials are of Chicago origin.

A Harold Washington librarian who happens to be an olde dear friend passed the guide my way several years back and it's since had pride of place next to Bruce Cost and that whippersnapper, Fuschia Dunlop.

germuska wrote:I'll admit that I only know it from Calvin Trillin. But in doing some googling to recall its exact title

Joe,

I learned of the Eater's Guide from a Trillin article as well, prompting me to run, not walk, to the University of Chicago bookstore for a copy.* With great anticipation, and not having opened the cover, I went to 'Little" Three Happiness and eagerly started translating wall signs. After about 25-minutes of utter perplexity I acquired the Like a Monkey looking at a donut** look common to the terminally confused.

I should point out, in general, I have zero facility with language, Your Mileage May Vary.

Enjoy,
Gary

*This was late 80's and the UofC bookstore was the only outlet for McCawley's Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters
**Attributable to Peter Daane's brother Todd

I gave the Eaters Guide a shot a couple of years ago during its last printing. I read parts of it every day for over a month then gave up, though I did pick up a few words that I managed to retain for a few weeks before they fled from my mind like bouillon through a sieve.

Alright guys, I have The Eater's Guide to Chinese Characters, I have the KS Seafood menu, and I have the hotline to my father within reach. Here I go!

I'll post updates as I go along.

ps. Where's a good place to look for a chinese character generator so I can post the original menu items as well as the translations?

I've also tried the eaters guide, but gave up on it rather quickly as it seemed much was lost in my clumsy attempts at translating menu items and I rarely wound up with what I wanted (or even expected).

I'm also frustrated about the lack of English translation on many Chinatown menus. I think the major reason for this is that the owners of these restaurants see their primary target clientele as ethnic Chinese and assume that most non-Chinese diners will simply be looking for the familiar Chinese-American items or something very similar. I have no doubt that this perception arises in part out of a culinary chauvinism and a belief that subtleties of Chinese cuisine might well be lost on many non-Asians. No doubt this belief has its roots deep in Chinese culture but the American Chinese restaurant customer must also take much of the blame, for the sad fact is that in many cases, this Chinese stereotype of American eating habits is entirely accurate.

How many times have I seen tables of non Asians at good Chinese Restaurants ordering the usual fried rice/ egg roll /chicken chow mein/egg foo young, oblivious to what type of restaurant
they might be in, or what else might be available. You only need to look at the successful north side/ Lincoln Park "Chinese" restaurants to see what most non Asian Chicagoans want and expect from Chinese food. The few attempts over the years at opening more authentic Chinese restaurants outside of Chinatown have all failed miserably. These lessons
are not lost on Chinese restauranteers.

What I think these restaurant owners do not really appreciate is that there
are a significant number of people like those of us here on LTH. People with a genuine interest and appreciation for ethnic food outside of their own cultural heritage in general, and for Chinese food in particular. Non Asians who don't mind fish with heads or meat with fat or dishes with heat. People who actually prefer food with character and authenticity. And, most
important of all, that these people love to eat out, and do so a lot.

What puzzles me is why this isn't apparent to restaurant owners in the Chinatown mall who only have to look across at Lao Szechuan to see how popular a restaurant serving authentic food, and marketing it (or at least making it readily accessible ) to non Chinese speakers can be in this city. Why they don't seem to appreciate the fact that there is almost always a line at LS while the Cantonese restaurants with chop suey house English menus sit mostly empty is beyond me. Don't they see that LS attracts an ethnically diverse crowd, with whites, Latinos, African-Americans and Desis packing in, shoulder to shoulder with Chinese on a nightly basis?

Now some of this is certainly attributable to the fact that Szechuan cuisine has a broader cross cultural appeal than does Cantonese, but I really think it goes deeper than that, and the success of LS reflects people responding to honest, largely unadulterated food , still vibrant and interesting and not neutered to accomodate someones misguided (and somewhat condescending) idea of what "American Taste" might be.

But things may be starting to change. I see Ken Kee has provided English translations for their Chinese wall banners. Mr. Wu promises captions for the menu pictures. Maybe the message is starting to sink in. Hope springs eternal.

Don makes good points.

I wanna add something, perhaps obvious, but I'm not really sure if it's been mentioned. A lot of it is plain and simple language. People come to the USA for a variety of reasons. Most try to learn English, but some never quite master. I can think of meals at Spring World where they really struggled to communicate with us, and needed the interloping of RST, even while being happy with our trying.

Moreover, or worse, food terms are not necessarily what people learn when they learn to speak English (and on top of this, menu items from different cultures just do not often directly translate). When I first tried to get the Yum Thai menu translated, it was not that they did not want the menu translated, it was that they could not get it translated. I brought the menu to a Thai woman and she struggled with the translation. Robin "foodfirst" took a great stab at it, but she did not get all the dishes right. When Erik re-did the translation, he took frequent trips to compare his translations to what was served. Menu translation is a skill, and a skill that many places just do not have.

kuhdo wrote:You only need to look at the successful north side/ Lincoln Park "Chinese" restaurants to see what most non Asian Chicagoans want and expect from Chinese food.

Or "Thai"

Something I first noted, when I moved to Chicago and visited Chicago's Chinatown, was actually how non-Asian friendly the restaurants are in regards to their menus. Very few locales in other parts of the nation have Chinese restaurants that provide menus with pictures of their menu items - this is a rarity. This is a great idea that I have not encountered elsewhere. Also, I have NEVER, outside of Chicago Chinatown, seen any of the restaurants publish their set family dinners in English - this in the past was always a "plus" for native readers. I think Chicago Chinatown is VERY non-Asian friendly and in many ways facilitates the authentic dining experience (you don't know how good you have it here). Dim-sum joints with their menus translated for easy ordering by list also come to mind (Shui Wah).

C'mon, let's not get paranoid, here -- restauranteurs aren't smugly keeping secrets from anyone. But they are trying to avoid unhappy customers who don't like what they ordered (despite warnings) and want to send it back or alternately, who try to politely eat these dishes but never return. Several times, I've been with non-Asian friends who insist on trying "the special whatever" ('cause you know, they're worldly people)and then end up disgusted, "Oh, I didn't realize it would have intestines," or "are those canned vienna sausages?" or whatever.

Sure, there's an open-minded and food-savvy LTH crowd like yourselves but you hardly characterize a majority. And it's not just non-Asians that are "steered" -- on Christmas Eve we had the surreal experience of eating lunch at the Hamburger King (Belmont/Clark/Newport?) where my boyfriend ordered the bibim kook-su (hot bean paste noodles, these were buckwheat) only to have the Japanese American (I'm guessing) waitress warn him that "it was too spicy". We tell her that's O.K. (we're both Korean) and we look around only to see all the Latino regulars eating bibim kook-su.

I look forward to trying this restaurant, thanks to the OP for scoping it out.

Our Chinatown scene has improved as far as being non-Asian user-friendly. Twasn't always thus. Back in the day if you ordered anything from the menu with bitter melon you'd get a 10 minute argument, and a 50/50 chance of sinking your teeth into any bitter melon.
On a similar note, I went to Lao Szechuan some years ago with a mixed group of Chinese and Caucasians, and one of the Chinese members of our group did the ordering(in Chinese). Even he got a 10 minute argument because the order was exotic, and non-Asians were at the table. Looking back, the server was not 100% wrong-no one at the table had more than a tablespoon of the pork intestine-kidney thing swimming in duck blood(or vice-versa).

The above points are well taken Things have indeed gotten somewhat better with respect to user friendliness, and I have also run across non translated menu items which in retrospect I would have gladly swapped for some nice sweet and sour chicken. I would also agree that paranoia about the motives behind non English menus is unwarranted, but isn't a Taiwanese restaurant wit NO Taiwanese dishes on the English language menu a bit much (though Moon Palace isn't much better with most of their Shanghai dishes appearing only in Chinese)?

kuhdo wrote:You only need to look at the successful north side/Lincoln Park "Chinese" restaurants to see what most non Asian Chicagoans want and expect from Chinese food. The few attempts over the years at opening more authentic Chinese restaurants outside of Chinatown have all failed miserably. These lessons are not lost on Chinese restaurateurs.

Just a conjecture, but it could be that the reason Anglos will go to a Lincoln Park Chinese such as Dee's on Armitage, for example, rather than to Chinatown, is not that they have unadventurous taste buds, but that at a Dee's they at least know they have access to everything the restaurant serves, even if it's merely well-executed standard fare. In other words, even if their taste buds are accepting and curious, even if they would enjoy the dishes to be found on Chinese-only menus and would love to try them if only they could, they would just as soon go to a place where they feel fully welcomed. For many, a restaurant should be a hospitable place, which then serves excellent food.

Has a fully-hospitable, no-holds-barred, authentically Chinese yet everything-in-English concept been tried on the North Side yet?

kuhdo wrote:I've also tried the eaters guide, but gave up on it rather quickly as it seemed much was lost in my clumsy attempts at translating menu items and I rarely wound up with what I wanted (or even expected).

One anecdote that I remember form the Eaters Guide was the story of the Chop Suey style Chinese restaurant with a sign that said Chinese Food in English and American Food in Chinese.

stevez wrote:

kuhdo wrote:I've also tried the eaters guide, but gave up on it rather quickly as it seemed much was lost in my clumsy attempts at translating menu items and I rarely wound up with what I wanted (or even expected).

One anecdote that I remember form the Eaters Guide was the story of the Chop Suey style Chinese restaurant with a sign that said Chinese Food in English and American Food in Chinese.

oddly enough, when mentioning The Eater's Guide I always refer to that anecdote

made 1st trip to KS Seafood today for lunch. for Chinese speakers out there, the waitresses speak Cantonese & Mandarin & will basically attempt any Chinese dialect to communicate, whereas the mgr Tom, spoke only Mandarin w/ me. for the non Chinese speaking, i didn't see (or hear) anything that would lead me to believe English would be a stumbling block. besides, i speak Chicago myself, u know...dis & dat, dese & dose.

although i made my own selections from the menu, in the future i will ask them to recommend Taiwanese dishes as that is their specialty, instead of other items from various Chinese regions or even Thai dishes. i had the following from the Chinese menu all in lunch proportion...

C2. home style "stink"y tofu - $6.50
D7. salt cured stir fried pork - $5.50
D18. shredded chicken w/ clear cellophane noodles in peanut sauce - $5.95
E2. fragrant steamed shrimp w/ garlic & scallions - $6.50

the above translations are combined literal & descriptive. all the dishes were very good, w/ the shrimp dish being exceptionally good. i love "stinky" tofu & theirs is a good rendition, but one can even get better at Diho in Westmont, at least in my humble opinion. now "stinky' tofu is definitely a literal translation, and is nowhere near as bad as it sounds. being a novice LTH'er, i was too busy eating & forgot to take any pics, SORRY. these items were strictly on the Chinese menu. i guess this would be a good time to give my parents all the credit for helping me w/ translations as my written Chinese skills are very rudimentary. i explained to the very hospitable folks at KS that they would get a lot more LTH love if they didn't have a Chinese menu & then a "lo fan" menu.

all in all, the food, service, and the restaurant itself would definitely merit going back. if u like Spring World, i think u'll like KS.

btw, total was just under $25 w/o tip for 3. Tue, i spent $20 at fRedhots for 3. don't get me wrong, Fred seemed genuinely nice, & i thought the beef sandwich was much above average. but next time i go to fRedhots, i would have to be right in the area.

thank u for taking the time to read & c u around LTH.

Riddlemay,
I'm not certain if this gets to the heart of your question, but Sun Wah on Argyle is a favorite of mine. The menu is clear enough, authentic,no-holds barred, and they have been quite friendly. There are some specials on the wall-some in English and some not-the servers help out as much as they can.
I'm not sure if this example counts as part of the Northside your referring to, since it is a "Chinatown" of sorts, but it gave me a chance to plug one of my faves that most of you are quite familiar with.

And I appreciate it, stewed coot. Thanks.

The Wife and I stopped by KS Seafood Restaurant tonight and had a number of items.

Stinky Tofu is quite a dish. It’s not for everyone. (My daughter took one whiff of a container we brought home and pretty much ran out of the room). It is some powerful stuff, on par with durian and some of the smelliest cheeses I’ve had in the past year (and I've had some stinkers). Did I like it? Yes, in the same way that I like hot pepper. It’s a taste that your senses tell you indicates rotten food or something toxic, and yet you eat it with the assurance that it can do you no harm – and that it very well might expand your sense of the edible. Stinky Tofu may be one of the most important foods I ate in 2006.



In the above photo, the tofu is the spongy pale stuff, and it comes with wood ear mushrooms, bitter melon, red chili, garlic, and two kinds of leeks. It was something special.

We also enjoyed the Roast Pork Bun, which may not be unique to Taiwan but was scrumptious: velvety slabs of piggy swimming in sweet sauce and to be sprinkled with crushed peanut, cilantro and diced bitter melon with chives and placed on a wonderfully absorbent steamed bun.



Tom, Freddy and Winnie were extraordinarily gracious, welcoming us and seemingly energized by our obvious enthusiasm to tell us – with evident pride – all about the foods of their island. They also marveled at the volume of food we put away, and we scored a first when Tom discretely suggested that, perhaps, we would like to move to a larger table to accommodate our many platters. We did.

KS Seafood Restaurant
2163 China Place
312.842.1238

Hi,

Sometime soon TonyC who is from Taiwan might take a gander at this thread. Perhaps TonyC and CrazyC could take a shot at translating the Chinese portion of the menu.

It has long been my understanding the Chinese of Taiwan, the majority are from Fujian province, which is just across the straits. As an aside, many of the Chinese in the Philippines are also from Fujian. The culinary heritage of Fujian follows these cultures, which is quite different from the Szechuan, Cantonese and Mandarin we are generally acquainted with.

Not to cast a long shadow on this discovery, I recall the dinner held several years ago at a restaurant featuring Fujian specialties. It comes up in conversation from time to time as an interesting meal, which many were pleased to experience once. There were a number of dishes and preparations unfamiliar to almost all of us. I was in the position of having gone earlier in the year, so the dinner yielded few surprises to me. What stands out in my memory were the tiny eel bones sticking like needles in my gums.

I'm always up for adventure and look forward to eating there someday soon.

Regards,

We had the roast pork buns on our last visit, and thought they were outstanding.In addition to the garnishes Dave Hammond mentions, these also come with a dish of chopped pickles.Seems to me the Taiwanese must really like their pickles as they seem to show up in a variety of guises on the KS menu. I didn't try the stinky tofu as I wasn't a big fan of this dish at Spring World, but Mr. Wu seems quite proud of it, and even mentioned that he has it specially brought in from California.I'm curious, what else did you order?