LTH Home

Cooking Pasta

Cooking Pasta
  • Forum HomePost Reply BackTop
     Page 1 of 2
  • Cooking Pasta

    Post #1 - July 25th, 2007, 5:05 pm
    Post #1 - July 25th, 2007, 5:05 pm Post #1 - July 25th, 2007, 5:05 pm
    On the cooking directions on most pasta boxes, it will tell you how much water to boil to cook the pound or whatever. It has always struck me that the amount of water recommended seemed rather large. I have cooked pasta in less water than recommended and not noticed any ill effects.

    How much water do you use for a pound of rotini, etc.? Two gallons, one gallon, ??? Also, does anyone add anything to their water like olive oil (was told it kept the pasta from sticking together), or salt, or ???
    What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
  • Post #2 - July 25th, 2007, 5:10 pm
    Post #2 - July 25th, 2007, 5:10 pm Post #2 - July 25th, 2007, 5:10 pm
    enough water to fill the stockpot leaving an inch or so to prevent boil-over(forget package instructions...no need to measure)

    boil water

    add enough kosher salt to make the water ocean-esque

    boil pasta until al dente

    reserve a cup or so of pasta water in order to emulsify sauce if needed

    ---

    no oil added to water, ever

    if making a cold pasta salad perhaps a soupcon of olive oil on the pasta post-removal from water to keep the starch grains from sticking
    Being gauche rocks, stun the bourgeoisie
  • Post #3 - July 25th, 2007, 5:17 pm
    Post #3 - July 25th, 2007, 5:17 pm Post #3 - July 25th, 2007, 5:17 pm
    The large amount of water is to dissolve some of the starch in the pasta to keep it from getting gummy.

    I also salt the pasta water, but use less in the sauce to balance it out.

    I often drain the pasta when its slightly under done, and then put back in the pot with a few ladles of sauce and cook for about a minute at a very low temperature to let the pasta absorb some of the sauce as it finishes cooking.

    I never rinse the pasta after draining so that I keep some of that dissolved starch to thicken the sauce.
  • Post #4 - July 25th, 2007, 5:36 pm
    Post #4 - July 25th, 2007, 5:36 pm Post #4 - July 25th, 2007, 5:36 pm
    The best pasta cooking lesson I've had:
    http://www.skilletdoux.com/2006/02/the_ ... t-75916818
  • Post #5 - July 25th, 2007, 6:14 pm
    Post #5 - July 25th, 2007, 6:14 pm Post #5 - July 25th, 2007, 6:14 pm
    Apparently adding oil to the boil will keep the pasta from absorbing the sauce or what ever when it's finished. Could be Alton Brown who brought this to my attention.

    Anthony Bourdain in his book "Kitchen Confidential" mentions being grateful to an employer who basically screwed him but did teach him how to make pasta. After draining the pasta it was placed on sheet pans of Olive Oil to cool slightly before being plated and sauced.

    Food for thought I guess. I've been told cook aldente, never rinse unless you are cooling for salad.
    "Some knives can slice through a tin can and still cut a tomato. Alton Brown's knives can slice through a Pontiac, and still cut a tin can."
  • Post #6 - July 25th, 2007, 6:39 pm
    Post #6 - July 25th, 2007, 6:39 pm Post #6 - July 25th, 2007, 6:39 pm
    HI,

    If I am cooking spaghetti, I test it by biting or cutting a strand. If I can see a white core in the center, then it needs additional cooking. Once the white core is gone, then it is perfectly cooked. At least for me, this works where timing and just giving it a visual check won't do.

    I have a friend who is a physicist, his sister a physician, his Mother an organic chemist and his Father an inorganic. He is great on lofty scientific issues and rather obtuse on practical knowledge. He once phoned inquiring how to make spaghetti. It was a nightmare explaining it to him.

    "Take a large pot." "How many cubic liters?" "I don't know, just a large pot that will fit the spaghetti, then fill it with water." "How many liters?" "I don't know, enough to fill the pot, then add some salt." "How many grams?" "I don't think in grams. Add a soup spoon filled with salt?" "Level or ..." This is the abridged version of the conversation spanning 20 minutes of detailed explanations that had me pulling my hair. It was tempting to drive over to just do it and get the job done.

    Good luck on the spaghetti, I think you will grasp the concept far faster than my friend. :D

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #7 - July 25th, 2007, 7:22 pm
    Post #7 - July 25th, 2007, 7:22 pm Post #7 - July 25th, 2007, 7:22 pm
    wak wrote:I also salt the pasta water, but use less in the sauce to balance it out.

    You have to salt the water. Pasta cooked without salt is so bland as to not be worth eating, no matter what you put on it later.

    Also, adding salt slightly raises the boiling temperature of the water, which I believe helps in the cooking.

    And, I also know from experience -- too little water results in gluey pasta.
  • Post #8 - July 25th, 2007, 7:23 pm
    Post #8 - July 25th, 2007, 7:23 pm Post #8 - July 25th, 2007, 7:23 pm
    Cogito wrote:On the cooking directions on most pasta boxes, it will tell you how much water to boil to cook the pound or whatever. It has always struck me that the amount of water recommended seemed rather large. I have cooked pasta in less water than recommended and not noticed any ill effects.

    How much water do you use for a pound of rotini, etc.? Two gallons, one gallon, ??? Also, does anyone add anything to their water like olive oil (was told it kept the pasta from sticking together), or salt, or ???


    I use about 2.5 gallons for a lb of pasta, as much as 3 gallons for more than that. The more water means a quicker return to boil, the less stirring, less sticking, less starch. Cleaner pasta.

    No oil, because that prevents the sauce from sticking to the pasta.

    Lots of salt added right before cooking for taste. A couple tablespoons.

    Pay no attention to the cooking times on the box. Keep taste testing until the hardness just leaves, just a tad earlier if the pasta will be cooked or mixed with hot sauce after draining.

    Save cooking water for the sauce. A tip from Cooks Illustrated is to put a cup measure in the colander to remind you to save a cup before draining. Don't drain the pasta too much or let it sit before saucing.

    Never rinse unless for a cold salad.

    Speaking of cold pasta salad, refrigerate all the ingredients beforehand (even a packaged mix,) and then freeze a stainless steel bowl while boiling the pasta. Then rinse the pasta in very cold water before assembling everything in the cold bowl. It then just needs a short stint in the fridge to chill it before serving.
    "Good stuff, Maynard." Dobie Gillis
  • Post #9 - July 25th, 2007, 7:31 pm
    Post #9 - July 25th, 2007, 7:31 pm Post #9 - July 25th, 2007, 7:31 pm
    wak wrote:Also, adding salt slightly raises the boiling temperature of the water, which I believe helps in the cooking.


    I have been told by a couple of folks who are trained in the appropriate sciences that while technically correct, you're talking about a fraction of a degree... nothing that's going to be in any way significant. Which is too bad. I like the science-y explanation :-)
    Dominic Armato
    Dining Critic
    The Arizona Republic and azcentral.com
  • Post #10 - July 25th, 2007, 8:06 pm
    Post #10 - July 25th, 2007, 8:06 pm Post #10 - July 25th, 2007, 8:06 pm
    People often state what they believe to be the right way to cook things as rules and commandments but, at least in my experience, that's not how things work in traditional Italian cooking as practised by serious cooks. There are general rules of thumb but also exceptions -- the trick is to know the difference and that comes through teaching, observation and practical experience.

    In any event, I assume the OP's question is actually intended to be the following: For your average pasta asciutta preparation, how much water should I use to boil the pasta?

    Now, to that one can give a fairly specific answer: for a pound of pasta you should use about five-six quarts of water. The water should already be salted and have returned to a very vigorous boil when you put the pasta in. Sufficient water and the vigorous boil will both help the pasta to cook properly. The amount of salt to be used is something that is variable, according to the dish in some cases, where the dressing is either rather salty or rather lacking in salt, but also, of course, according to the tastes and health requirements of the consumer. I measure the salt in my hand and can't give an exact quantity but, since everyone needs to figure out how much he or she likes, it's up to you to figure out your own level. No salt at all may be necessary for people with seriously high blood pressure but it will result in tasteless pasta and not even American-style tidal waves of kitchen-sink sauces will be able to change the fact that the pasta itself is tasteless or nearly so. I use a fair amount. And I should add that kosher salt is a fine choice if you're keeping kosher or only have kosher salt on hand; all my Italian friends and relatives, both here and in Italy, use good old industrial salt.

    Antonius

    N.B. The Bourdain trick mentioned above is perhaps good for restaurant cooking but it is not a traditional or, in my estimation, a generally advisable technique. In that regard, I avoid eating pasta in restaurants, precisely because of the various tricks they use to make service maximally smooth and convenient.
    Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
    - aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
    ________
    Na sir is na seachain an cath.
  • Post #11 - July 26th, 2007, 7:49 am
    Post #11 - July 26th, 2007, 7:49 am Post #11 - July 26th, 2007, 7:49 am
    Dmnkly wrote:
    wak wrote:Also, adding salt slightly raises the boiling temperature of the water, which I believe helps in the cooking.


    I have been told by a couple of folks who are trained in the appropriate sciences that while technically correct, you're talking about a fraction of a degree... nothing that's going to be in any way significant. Which is too bad. I like the science-y explanation :-)


    The boiling point of water goes up by 1°C (1.8°F) for every mole of salt per liter. 1 mole of salt = 58.44 grams and there are 3.785 liters per gallon. Therefore to raise the boiling point of 1 gallon of water by 1°C, you need to add almost half a pound of salt.
    When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University!
  • Post #12 - July 26th, 2007, 8:44 am
    Post #12 - July 26th, 2007, 8:44 am Post #12 - July 26th, 2007, 8:44 am
    Antonius wrote:People often state what they believe to be the right way to cook things as rules and commandments but, at least in my experience, that's not how things work in traditional Italian cooking as practised by serious cooks. There are general rules of thumb but also exceptions -- the trick is to know the difference and that comes through teaching, observation and practical experience.

    In any event, I assume the OP's question is actually intended to be the following: For your average pasta asciutta preparation, how much water should I use to boil the pasta?

    Now, to that one can give a fairly specific answer: for a pound of pasta you should use about five-six quarts of water. The water should already be salted and have returned to a very vigorous boil when you put the pasta in. Sufficient water and the vigorous boil will both help the pasta to cook properly. The amount of salt to be used is something that is variable, according to the dish in some cases, where the dressing is either rather salty or rather lacking in salt, but also, of course, according to the tastes and health requirements of the consumer. I measure the salt in my hand and can't give an exact quantity but, since everyone needs to figure out how much he or she likes, it's up to you to figure out your own level. No salt at all may be necessary for people with seriously high blood pressure but it will result in tasteless pasta and not even American-style tidal waves of kitchen-sink sauces will be able to change the fact that the pasta itself is tasteless or nearly so. I use a fair amount. And I should add that kosher salt is a fine choice if you're keeping kosher or only have kosher salt on hand; all my Italian friends and relatives, both here and in Italy, use good old industrial salt.

    Antonius

    N.B. The Bourdain trick mentioned above is perhaps good for restaurant cooking but it is not a traditional or, in my estimation, a generally advisable technique. In that regard, I avoid eating pasta in restaurants, precisely because of the various tricks they use to make service maximally smooth and convenient.


    Indeed, I do not keep regular ole table salt in my house. No reason not to except that I don't cook with it...tho' it's perfectly fine to do so.

    My salt shaker(um...sugar container) is filled with Diamond kosher salt and the pepper grinder is all purpose. If someone wants to reseason their food I just hand them those.
    Being gauche rocks, stun the bourgeoisie
  • Post #13 - July 26th, 2007, 8:50 am
    Post #13 - July 26th, 2007, 8:50 am Post #13 - July 26th, 2007, 8:50 am
    HI,

    Salt was iodized to introduce iodine into our diets to avoid iodine deficiency diseases. Kosher salt doesn't have iodine or any other added chemicals, so where do you get iodine into your diet?

    You may find this link to Historical Evidence of Benefits of Iodized Salt in the United States of interest.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #14 - July 26th, 2007, 8:58 am
    Post #14 - July 26th, 2007, 8:58 am Post #14 - July 26th, 2007, 8:58 am
    Iodine occurs naturally in many foods. Way back when, people didn't eat the variety of foods we eat now and hence were at risk of not having sufficient iodine in their diets. Hence, iodized salt. Today, if you eat a healthy diet with a variety of foods (esp seafood), you don't need extra iodine via salt.
  • Post #15 - July 26th, 2007, 10:31 am
    Post #15 - July 26th, 2007, 10:31 am Post #15 - July 26th, 2007, 10:31 am
    Re: kosher salt

    My point, which apparently was insufficiently obvious, was that the instructions in which kosher salt was mentioned above were given with no qualification along the lines of 'this is what I do' or 'this is one good way that I have learned or figured out' or whatever; rather, they were stated as if they were a declaration of universal truth.

    In my comments, I clearly did not try to claim that kosher salt is somehow 'bad' or 'wrong' for this or any other purpose. The point was to make it clear that, if anyone had taken that authoritiative sounding invocation of the use of kosher salt as representative of some traditional or collective wisdom regarding the proper cooking of pasta, they should realise that it is not that. My further observation, offered in support of the first regarding kosher salt, was that Italians -- and since the OP used the word 'pasta' and not 'noodles', that seems a reasonable perspective to include here -- generally do not use kosher salt but rather something along the lines of Morton's or else sea salt, though using sea salt to season pasta water would be awfully wasteful for people, such as myself, who do not possess unlimited means.

    If one likes kosher salt, one should use it as one sees fit. But in seasoning pasta water, it has no magical powers and is most decidedly not something that should be suggested as essential for one to use in order to boil pasta properly.
    Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
    - aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
    ________
    Na sir is na seachain an cath.
  • Post #16 - July 26th, 2007, 10:41 am
    Post #16 - July 26th, 2007, 10:41 am Post #16 - July 26th, 2007, 10:41 am
    Antonius wrote:And I should add that kosher salt is a fine choice if you're keeping kosher or only have kosher salt on hand; all my Italian friends and relatives, both here and in Italy, use good old industrial salt.


    Kosher salt is not called "Kosher" because it *is* kosher (in fact, nearly all salt is kosher). It is called "Kosher salt" because it is the typical type of salt used to kosher meat. It's probably the same salt as your "industrial" stuff, except probably more coarsely ground and (generally) without additives.
  • Post #17 - July 26th, 2007, 11:11 am
    Post #17 - July 26th, 2007, 11:11 am Post #17 - July 26th, 2007, 11:11 am
    Wow. I both now, perhaps lack iodine in my, perhaps, insufficiently various diet *and* have offended legions of Italians by offering a perceived salty truth beyond what is, in actuality, bespoke.

    Since matriculation over a decade ago I eat out only occasionally...instead preferring
    to self-teach/cook virtually every meal. This began as a means to budget and evolved into a previously-unknown passion for the kitchen and it's opportunities. I think I've learned a thing or two.

    hubristic, but there you have it

    What really got me going in the OP's post and went unsaid is this BS old Italian diaspora wives' shtick with the adding of the oil to the pasta water...

    this hoary convention persists despite countless spankings with the back of a wooden spoon

    ack!

    es tut mir leid...I neglected to display my kitchen diplomas(scars and brands) when offering simple received pasta wisdom
    Being gauche rocks, stun the bourgeoisie
  • Post #18 - July 26th, 2007, 12:06 pm
    Post #18 - July 26th, 2007, 12:06 pm Post #18 - July 26th, 2007, 12:06 pm
    Although adding oil to the water will not keep the pasta from sticking, it does help keep the pasta water from boiling over if you have a particularly full pot and a particularly rolling boil.
    Ed Fisher
    my chicago food photos

    RIP LTH.
  • Post #19 - July 26th, 2007, 2:13 pm
    Post #19 - July 26th, 2007, 2:13 pm Post #19 - July 26th, 2007, 2:13 pm
    Darren72 wrote:
    Antonius wrote:And I should add that kosher salt is a fine choice if you're keeping kosher or only have kosher salt on hand; all my Italian friends and relatives, both here and in Italy, use good old industrial salt.


    Kosher salt is not called "Kosher" because it *is* kosher (in fact, nearly all salt is kosher). It is called "Kosher salt" because it is the typical type of salt used to kosher meat. It's probably the same salt as your "industrial" stuff, except probably more coarsely ground and (generally) without additives.


    I am well aware of the connexion between kosher salt and the salting of meat in order to drain the blood, etc. but I admit that I have no direct knowledge of or insight into the full complexities of Jewish dietary law; I have observed that Jewish friends of mine generally have kosher salt on hand in the home kitchen (and presumably not for butchering purposes) and that was true decades ago, long before the age of Food Network and Alton Brown and the diffusion of the fact among the general population that kosher salt has properties that cause some chefs to prefer it for some applications... back when pretty much the only people I knew who used kosher salt were, in fact, Jewish. Is that a question of religion or cultural tradition or some combination thereof, or perhaps faulty observation on my part? I don't know. In any event, it was hardly a central point I was making, since the discussion at hand had simply to do with the methods of boiling pasta.

    And I also am well aware of the fact that the principal chemical substance in question here is the same in the various salt products available for kitchen use. Texture and the presence of secondary elements is what is at issue in salt choices (kosher, the infinitude of sea salts, 'industrial' products) and since the textural properties of kosher salt are lost when it is dissolved in water, the only remaining issue is that of additional elements present and in particular of additives. 'Industrial' salt is available with and without iodine, so if one doesn't want iodine, one still has a choice between kosher and non-kosher salt.

    As I said, if one has only kosher salt on hand, for whatever reason there might be, one should use kosher salt. And if one prefers kosher salt for whatever reason, one should use it. My point was simply that there is no reason to go out of one's way to use kosher salt in seasoning water in which one will boil pasta.

    ***

    CG,

    My point was simply that part of what you present as 'received wisdom' is, in fact, not received wisdom, in any event, certainly not from the an Italian perspective. And with that, I really don't see anything more to be said about the issue.
    Alle Nerven exzitiert von dem gewürzten Wein -- Anwandlung von Todesahndungen -- Doppeltgänger --
    - aus dem Tagebuch E.T.A. Hoffmanns, 6. Januar 1804.
    ________
    Na sir is na seachain an cath.
  • Post #20 - July 26th, 2007, 2:29 pm
    Post #20 - July 26th, 2007, 2:29 pm Post #20 - July 26th, 2007, 2:29 pm
    Antonius wrote:
    Darren72 wrote:
    Antonius wrote:And I should add that kosher salt is a fine choice if you're keeping kosher or only have kosher salt on hand; all my Italian friends and relatives, both here and in Italy, use good old industrial salt.


    Kosher salt is not called "Kosher" because it *is* kosher (in fact, nearly all salt is kosher). It is called "Kosher salt" because it is the typical type of salt used to kosher meat. It's probably the same salt as your "industrial" stuff, except probably more coarsely ground and (generally) without additives.


    I am well aware of the connexion between kosher salt and the salting of meat in order to drain the blood, etc. but I admit that I have no direct knowledge of or insight into the full complexities of Jewish dietary law; I have observed that Jewish friends of mine generally have kosher salt on hand in the home kitchen (and presumably not for butchering purposes) and that was true decades ago, long before the age of Food Network and Alton Brown and the diffusion of the fact among the general population that kosher salt has properties that cause some chefs to prefer it for some applications... back when pretty much the only people I knew who used kosher salt were, in fact, Jewish. Is that a question of religion or cultural tradition or some combination thereof, or perhaps faulty observation on my part? I don't know. In any event, it was hardly a central point I was making, since the discussion at hand had simply to do with the methods of boiling pasta.

    And I also am well aware of the fact that the principal chemical substance in question here is the same in the various salt products available for kitchen use. Texture and the presence of secondary elements is what is at issue in salt choices (kosher, the infinitude of sea salts, 'industrial' products) and since the textural properties of kosher salt are lost when it is dissolved in water, the only remaining issue is that of additional elements present and in particular of additives. 'Industrial' salt is available with and without iodine, so if one doesn't want iodine, one still has a choice between kosher and non-kosher salt.

    As I said, if one has only kosher salt on hand, for whatever reason there might be, one should use kosher salt. And if one prefers kosher salt for whatever reason, one should use it. My point was simply that there is no reason to go out of one's way to use kosher salt in seasoning water in which one will boil pasta.


    Relax, please. This is a board to have fun and exchange information. Your tone suggests that you feel insulted somehow, which isn't the intent.

    Whatever facts and methods you are "well aware of," you are not the only person who might read this thread. Perhaps there are others who are not as "well aware" and might appreciate a better understanding of what the heck this kosher salt really is. After all, one person suggested using it, another seemed to suggest that it doesn't matter.
  • Post #21 - July 26th, 2007, 3:33 pm
    Post #21 - July 26th, 2007, 3:33 pm Post #21 - July 26th, 2007, 3:33 pm
    yeah...I'm not sure what's going on here:

    to clarify...I use kosher salt 'cuz it's what's in my kitchen(and I don't find it inordinately expensive...which seemed to be suggested earlier)

    I also don't use it because I was impressed by some benighted Food Channel programming...jeebus...I *like* kosher salt...I like the texture of Diamond brand as compared to Morton's...and...ridiculous as it may sound...

    I think it tastes better than table salt

    for comparison, I own two everyday salts: Diamond flake kosher and Trader Joe's coarse sea salt

    you will not find Maldon, black or red Hawaiian salt, smoked salt, truffle salt(mmm...mmm), salt evaporated off the inner thighs of Patpong boywhores, nor the miraculous, mephitic salts farmed from the eldritch bookworms of the incunabulae von Charles Dexter Ward...in my kitchen cabinet

    salt water pasta

    it sounds simple
    Last edited by Christopher Gordon on July 26th, 2007, 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Being gauche rocks, stun the bourgeoisie
  • Post #22 - July 26th, 2007, 3:49 pm
    Post #22 - July 26th, 2007, 3:49 pm Post #22 - July 26th, 2007, 3:49 pm
    For me the only way to cook pasta is in water, with salt added. I use kosher salt because that is what I have in my kitchen that is in a bulk form.

    When draining the pasta I reserve a portion of the starchy cooking water, and "rinse" it with this reserved liquid before saucing. the sauce will adhere better to the noodles. imho

    Lastly, I never, ever add oil to the water.
  • Post #23 - July 26th, 2007, 5:05 pm
    Post #23 - July 26th, 2007, 5:05 pm Post #23 - July 26th, 2007, 5:05 pm
    Sundaysous wrote:I've been told cook aldente, never rinse unless you are cooling for salad.

    In my experience, it works better to add the salad dressing to the warm pasta and then refrigerate (or chill in an ice bath if you're in a hurry). The dressing adheres better and flavors the pasta more deeply.

    Dmnkly wrote:
    wak wrote:Also, adding salt slightly raises the boiling temperature of the water, which I believe helps in the cooking.


    I have been told by a couple of folks who are trained in the appropriate sciences that while technically correct, you're talking about a fraction of a degree... nothing that's going to be in any way significant. Which is too bad. I like the science-y explanation :-)

    Actually, you're quoting me, not wak.

    All I can say is that there's nothing so scientific as experiment and I have done so. On my stove, in my kitchen, there's enough difference that I never add salt to the water until it's already boiling, because otherwise it takes several minutes longer to come to a boil.

    I have tried this experiment with two different pots of water, one salted and one not, set on the heat at the same time. In my kitchen, it's not possible to have identical conditions because I don't have completely identical pots and I have no way of telling whether my stove's burners reach the same temperatures (in fact, I'm pretty sure they do not), but I'm satisfied that the water with salt in it boils hotter.

    I admit that my attempts to measure the boiling temps failed miserably due to inadequate measuring equipment. However, this science-education site supports my findings, showing a temperature hike of more than 5 degrees over plain water with 2 spoons of salt (not clear whether teaspoons or tablespoons or what kind of salt) to a quart of water.

    Salt will also lower the temperature at which water freezes, which is why you add it to the ice in an old-fashioned ice-cream freezer.

    Antonius wrote:Italians -- and since the OP used the word 'pasta' and not 'noodles', that seems a reasonable perspective to include here

    Although one can certainly point to historic usage in which there was macaroni and spaghetti and everything else was noodles, the word pasta has become thoroughly American and is the preferred term even for U.S.-made products. Today, most people refer to noodles mainly when they mean egg noodles, as in chicken-noodle soup.

    It would be interesting to pinpoint just when that change came about. I'm guessing it began in the 1960s. Certainly it was complete by 1981, when the National Macaroni Manufacturers Association changed its name to the National Pasta Association. (I was surprised to read that that organization claims pasta was introduced to the New World by the English -- which would seem to add an extra level of derisiveness to "Yankee Doodle.")

    Darren72 wrote:Kosher salt is not called "Kosher" because it *is* kosher (in fact, nearly all salt is kosher). It is called "Kosher salt" because it is the typical type of salt used to kosher meat. It's probably the same salt as your "industrial" stuff, except probably more coarsely ground and (generally) without additives.

    This is true, but there are some differences because of the different processing methods used for the various kinds of salt and the shape of the individual grains. Morton's flattens salt crystals using rollers so its kosher salt comes in big flakes (and it does contain yellow prussiate of soda, an anti-caking agent), whereas the Alberger brine process that Diamond's uses produces more crystalline salt; therefore, they measure differently and have different levels of sodium by volume. Per teaspoon, Morton Kosher Salt contains 1,882 milligrams of sodium and Diamond Crystal Kosher Salt contains 1,120 milligrams, compared to regular table salt with 2,360 milligrams. So if you're using kosher salt, you need to add more to get the same level of saltiness.
  • Post #24 - July 26th, 2007, 7:13 pm
    Post #24 - July 26th, 2007, 7:13 pm Post #24 - July 26th, 2007, 7:13 pm
    LAZ wrote: However, this science-education site supports my findings, showing a temperature hike of more than 5 degrees over plain water with 2 spoons of salt (not clear whether teaspoons or tablespoons or what kind of salt) to a quart of water.


    Those must just be example numbers, or they're using uncalibrated measuring equipment, because there is no possible way 2 tablespoons of salt could raise the boiling point of 1 quart of water 5 degrees Fahrenheit. The rule of thumb is one ounce of salt per quart per degree Fahrenheit. You would need about 8 tablespoons (24 teaspoons) of salt to raise the water boiling point 5 degrees F.

    We did an experiment like this in high school, and found that you need quite a significant amount of salt to raise the water boiling point an appreciable level.
  • Post #25 - July 26th, 2007, 7:49 pm
    Post #25 - July 26th, 2007, 7:49 pm Post #25 - July 26th, 2007, 7:49 pm
    LAZ wrote:I admit that my attempts to measure the boiling temps failed miserably due to inadequate measuring equipment. However, this science-education site supports my findings, showing a temperature hike of more than 5 degrees over plain water with 2 spoons of salt (not clear whether teaspoons or tablespoons or what kind of salt) to a quart of water.


    This science experiment says that the 5.4 degree hike is attained when you add 2 tablespoons of salt to 1 quart of water, and 2.7 degrees when you add 1 tablespoon.

    Since I hope most people here are cooking in at least 4 quarts of water, and probably adding 1Tbsp of iodized salt (1tbsp of kosher salt is less actual salt, so will have less of an effect), we're talking about a .7 degree or so hike in boiling point. If people are using 6qts or so, it's about .45 degrees.

    FYI: My memory is 2Tbsp of iodized salt is about 50g, or 1.75oz by weight, which jives with Binko's.
    Ed Fisher
    my chicago food photos

    RIP LTH.
  • Post #26 - July 26th, 2007, 8:12 pm
    Post #26 - July 26th, 2007, 8:12 pm Post #26 - July 26th, 2007, 8:12 pm
    Howard Hillman in "Kitchen Science" wrote:Salt: Salt, sugar, and practically any other substance elevates the boiling point and therefore shortens cooking time. The difference in temperature between unsalted and salted water (one teaspoon of salt per quart of water) is about 1° to 2° F, a difference that can be critical in cooking situations demanding exactness.

    Harold McGee in "On Food and Cooking," however, says it takes an ounce of salt (2 tablespoons) to raise the temp of a quart of water by 1 degree, but it's not clear whether he's talking Fahrenheit or Celsius.

    Neither of them cite any experiments they've done personally and all the experiments I can find online use small beakers of water, not the amounts of water and salt that you'd use in a real cooking situation. Perhaps there's somebody out there who has access to scientific measuring equipment, calibrated burners, etc., who wants to do these experiments and video them for us. (Does it make a difference that adding salt to the water also increases the overall volume of the contents of the pot?)

    All I have to go by are the results I seem to get at home. I normally add about 2 tablespoons kosher salt per quart of water (no, I usually don't measure accurately -- I just throw a handful into the pot). Call me superstitious if you like, but I still think pasta has better texture as well as taste when boiled in salted water, and if it's not the slightly higher temperature that does it, then it's some other magical property in the salt.

    Salt is great stuff.
  • Post #27 - July 26th, 2007, 9:50 pm
    Post #27 - July 26th, 2007, 9:50 pm Post #27 - July 26th, 2007, 9:50 pm
    HI,

    On Chowhound, I was reamed by someone seeking information on making spaetzle, when I reminded them, really myself, to put salt in the water. He seemed to be of the opinion the remark was so elementary that I was insulting him. I know people who prepare their pasta without salt in their water

    Spaetzle as well as pasta are just not quite the same without the salt in their cooking water. The salt water absorbed by the pasta or cooking spaetzle are an intrinsic component. Everytime I forget it is really an error you cannot cover with sauce later on.

    If I forget to add salt earlier, then there is always a bubbling frenzy when the salt is added at the last moment during full boil.

    When visitiing Colonial Williamsburg or other homes of an earlier era, I was always impressed by the salt safes. Salt today is an incidental acquisition. I wonder what it must have been like to have no salt in your diet whatsoever. By our standards it is almost unthinkable.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast
  • Post #28 - July 27th, 2007, 2:57 am
    Post #28 - July 27th, 2007, 2:57 am Post #28 - July 27th, 2007, 2:57 am
    Thanks everybody for your input. My normal modus operandi when cooking pasta has been to use about a gallon, sometimes a little more, of water per pound of pasta, with one or two teaspoons of salt (whatever variety is handy, I cannot detect any taste differences between kosher, iodine-added, or iodine-free). The thing I was wondering about was what difference it made in the final product if you used say 4, 6, or 8 quarts of water. Aside from cooking a little quicker when using larger volumes of water, I have not really noticed any significant differences in the final results, regardless of which volume of water is used. Of course, the slightly quicker cooking times realized when using more water do not really allow you to prepare your dish faster as it takes longer to bring those volumes of water to a boil.

    I do not really see how those folks that claim adding a lot of salt to raise the boiling temperature of the water by maybe 1% to make it cook faster can even notice such a small difference. What does it matter if the cooking time is a few seconds less? I usually start sampling the pasta about a minute before the end of the “recommended” cooking time, until it is to my liking. It seems like variations in the initial water temperature, or the volume used would have a more dramatic effect on your overall start to finish interval, and if you wanted to save time, that would be the place to do it.

    I find the discussion of the various types of salts interesting, but cannot imagine how they could have much effect on anything since the salt is dissolved.
    What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about?
  • Post #29 - July 27th, 2007, 6:11 am
    Post #29 - July 27th, 2007, 6:11 am Post #29 - July 27th, 2007, 6:11 am
    Cogito wrote:but cannot imagine how they could have much effect on anything since the salt is dissolved.


    That has been my experience - I tried using normal table salt v. kosher salt in pasta water and didn't notice any difference in the taste. I use kosher salt because the larger crystals make it easier to measure out by hand. The only salts that have a distinct taste difference to me are some of European Sea Salts (Ex. French Fleur de Sel) and even with them, its only if I add at the table or right before service that I notice and significant difference.
  • Post #30 - July 27th, 2007, 6:17 am
    Post #30 - July 27th, 2007, 6:17 am Post #30 - July 27th, 2007, 6:17 am
    Cogito,

    The salt is dissolved and now part of the cooking water's chemical composition. While it disapeered to the naked eye, it is very present affecting taste, boiling temperatures to various degrees and perhaps texture.

    The volume of water is an issue if you have too little. Once you have gotten optimum water to allow movement and the dissolved starches are diluted sufficiently to not cause problems. If you are dealing with one pound of pasta in 3-4 quarts water, then this is probably optimal. When you are in the 6-8 quarts range you are lengthening the cooking time simply because it takes much longer to bring it to a boil. You are likely not getting any real notable difference in the pasta cooking process.

    I don't notice a taste difference between table salt with or without iodine. Since iodine is good for your thyroid, it is a non-issue to me to use with iodine. If I am canning, then I buy canning salt which measures like tablesalt but has no flowing agents in it. Those flowing agents can contribute to darkening a canned product over time.

    Regards,
    Cathy2

    "You'll be remembered long after you're dead if you make good gravy, mashed potatoes and biscuits." -- Nathalie Dupree
    Facebook, Twitter, Greater Midwest Foodways, Road Food 2012: Podcast

Contact

About

Team

Advertize

Close

Chat

Articles

Guide

Events

more