That's absolutely absurd. I don't care if the chef prefers rare, if you serve it to me rare it's going back in the kitchen if i ask for medium rare. If you don't want to serve it anything other than rare, say so on your menu and don't serve it any other way. I can appreciate that, but willfully denying a customer what they request because some jackass chef feels that they know better is terrible.

Could it also be that Primehouse is probably the most posted about steakhouse? I mean, the other big boys (Gibson's, Morton's, Chophouse, etc) have been around for awhile and people may not feel as motivated to post about them. If people posted about other steakhouses with the same frequency as Primehouse, I wonder if similar issues would arise.

I will say that even though I dislike Morton's and Ruth's Chris, they do get my steaks perfect (at medium rare) every single time.

Just for another point, I was at Gibson's recently (ok couple of months ago) and ordered filet - medium rare...what I received was rare. And for our party (12 people) it seemed the further away from rare you ordered the less likely you were going to like how your steak was done. Most seemed to be 1 to 2 degrees rarer than ordered, i.e. medium well coming out medium rare (mom wasn't happy). Perhaps it was a rogue grill chef, but it does seem to hapen pretty frequently, and not just at Gibson's. But for the price points these top of the line steakhouses are at, they should be able to give you what you ask for whether they like it or not.

scanz wrote:Just for another point, I was at Gibson's recently (ok couple of months ago) and ordered filet - medium rare...what I received was rare. And for our party (12 people) it seemed the further away from rare you ordered the less likely you were going to like how your steak was done. Most seemed to be 1 to 2 degrees rarer than ordered, i.e. medium well coming out medium rare (mom wasn't happy). Perhaps it was a rogue grill chef, but it does seem to hapen pretty frequently, and not just at Gibson's. But for the price points these top of the line steakhouses are at, they should be able to give you what you ask for whether they like it or not.

To me, this is a tough one (no pun intended). If they serve the person the steak a little rarer than they asked for, the customer may learn to enjoy it that way, but more importantly, they won't have to throw the steak away in the same way that they would if the customer decides it is TOO well done. As long it is underdone, the steak is still salvageable. I believe that when the steak is going for $50+, they may want to protect their own interests by serving just slightly underdone, knowing that they can always tweak it upon serving. At least for me, I would far more prefer that the meat came out slightly cooler temp than I ordered rather than vice versa. I also believe that when you order your steak a certain way, you are actually ordering within a very small "range", not an exact doneness. The better steak places will always go to the cool side of the "range" that was specified.

scanz wrote:Just for another point, I was at Gibson's recently (ok couple of months ago) and ordered filet - medium rare...what I received was rare. And for our party (12 people) it seemed the further away from rare you ordered the less likely you were going to like how your steak was done. Most seemed to be 1 to 2 degrees rarer than ordered, i.e. medium well coming out medium rare (mom wasn't happy). Perhaps it was a rogue grill chef, but it does seem to hapen pretty frequently, and not just at Gibson's. But for the price points these top of the line steakhouses are at, they should be able to give you what you ask for whether they like it or not.

Last few times I was at Gibson's I was served my steak and asked to cut into it -- and check for proper doneness -- while the waiter stood there over me at the table. I thought it quite odd that the guy in the kitchen who cooks steaks all day, everyday, needed me to tell him if he got it right or not. I'm fairly easy-going but it irritated me that, especially for that price, the kitchen seemed to need my input to get it right. I should have offered to go back to the kitchen and give a demonstration on how to check a steak for doneness.

=R=

YoYoPedro wrote:

scanz wrote:To me, this is a tough one (no pun intended). If they serve the person the steak a little rarer than they asked for, the customer may learn to enjoy it that way, but more importantly, they won't have to throw the steak away in the same way that they would if the customer decides it is TOO well done. As long it is underdone, the steak is still salvageable. I believe that when the steak is going for $50+, they may want to protect their own interests by serving just slightly underdone, knowing that they can always tweak it upon serving. At least for me, I would far more prefer that the meat came out slightly cooler temp than I ordered rather than vice versa. I also believe that when you order your steak a certain way, you are actually ordering within a very small "range", not an exact doneness. The better steak places will always go to the cool side of the "range" that was specified.

I can understand a steakhouse not wanting to toss out a prime steak if a customer thinks it's overcooked, but I also don't really want to have to send a steak back twice to get it done properly. For one thing it's drying out...and I don't really want the guy who has to grill it again doing something inappropriate to my steak either.

ronnie_suburban wrote:

scanz wrote:Just for another point, I was at Gibson's recently (ok couple of months ago) and ordered filet - medium rare...what I received was rare. And for our party (12 people) it seemed the further away from rare you ordered the less likely you were going to like how your steak was done. Most seemed to be 1 to 2 degrees rarer than ordered, i.e. medium well coming out medium rare (mom wasn't happy). Perhaps it was a rogue grill chef, but it does seem to hapen pretty frequently, and not just at Gibson's. But for the price points these top of the line steakhouses are at, they should be able to give you what you ask for whether they like it or not.

Last few times I was at Gibson's I was served my steak and asked to cut into it -- and check for proper doneness -- while the waiter stood there over me at the table. I thought it quite odd that the guy in the kitchen who cooks steaks all day, everyday, needed me to tell him if he got it right or not. I'm fairly easy-going but it irritated me that, especially for that price, the kitchen seemed to need my input to get it right. I should have offered to go back to the kitchen and give a demonstration on how to check a steak for doneness.

=R=

I can see the restaurant's point of view. I did a year at a Morton's location when I was finishing undergrad. Even the best grill cooks make mistakes. Also, if the server simply dropped the steaks and went off to get caught up in other tasks, you may have been left sitting there for several minutes with an under/over cooked steak before he returned to check. I actually think it's good service to ensure that everybody's steaks are satisfactory immediately so that any problems can be handled immediately.

Also, and I can say this from experience, not everybody's MR is tue big city MR. There are numerous people out there who love M or MW steak but "think" they eat MR because there's a little pink in it.

ronnie_suburban wrote:Last few times I was at Gibson's I was served my steak and asked to cut into it -- and check for proper doneness -- while the waiter stood there over me at the table....I'm fairly easy-going but it irritated me that, especially for that price, the kitchen seemed to need my input to get it right.

Interesting...I disagree. I think it shows the restaurant's level of commitment to giving the diner what they want. If they're willing to risk cutting open a steak and having the customer say 'Meh, it's a touch overdone' (rather than just serving it and walking away, forcing the diner to decide, 'Is it worth the hassle/embarrassment to complain?'), I'd say that's great service.

One of the best steaks (if not the best steak...) I've ever had, at Boulevard Steakhouse in Edmond, OK was served this way. I appreciated that extra note of service...like going a step further to accommodate my preferred doneness.

crrush wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Last few times I was at Gibson's I was served my steak and asked to cut into it -- and check for proper doneness -- while the waiter stood there over me at the table....I'm fairly easy-going but it irritated me that, especially for that price, the kitchen seemed to need my input to get it right.

Interesting...I disagree. I think it shows the restaurant's level of commitment to giving the diner what they want. If they're willing to risk cutting open a steak and having the customer say 'Meh, it's a touch overdone' (rather than just serving it and walking away, forcing the diner to decide, 'Is it worth the hassle/embarrassment to complain?'), I'd say that's great service.

One of the best steaks (if not the best steak...) I've ever had, at Boulevard Steakhouse in Edmond, OK was served this way. I appreciated that extra note of service...like going a step further to accommodate my preferred doneness.

Interesting perspective, crrush. I guess I'm just a glass-half-empty kind of guy

=R=

Sam Harmon wrote:Also, and I can say this from experience, not everybody's MR is tue big city MR. There are numerous people out there who love M or MW steak but "think" they eat MR because there's a little pink in it.

Another good point, which I hadn't really considered. Still, I'm just not comfortable with this. Maybe it's just me but I feel like they should be able to get it right, without the customer's assistance, often enough so that the 'toss outs' are kept to an affordable minimum.

Maybe I just look like the kind of person who doesn't know medium-well from medium-rare

=R=

ronnie_suburban wrote:

Sam Harmon wrote:Also, and I can say this from experience, not everybody's MR is tue big city MR. There are numerous people out there who love M or MW steak but "think" they eat MR because there's a little pink in it.

Another good point, which I hadn't really considered. Still, I'm just not comfortable with this. Maybe it's just me but I feel like they should be able to get it right, without the customer's assistance, often enough so that the 'toss outs' are kept to an affordable minimum.

Maybe I just look like the kind of person who doesn't know medium-well from medium-rare

=R=

A picture is worth 1000 words. Maybe the back of the menu should have photos of cross-sections of steaks with the respective temp term next to each photo. No misunderstandings after that!

Educate me here: It seems to me that a steak served deliberately one step rarer than the customer's order (on the theory that it's always possible to throw it under the broiler again but the only way to give a customer a less-done steak is to start over with a new piece of meat), and then cooked some more to bring it to the customer-specified level of doneness, cannot possibly be as good as a steak that's cooked only once, and correctly the first time.

Or am I wrong about that?

riddlemay wrote:Educate me here: It seems to me that a steak served deliberately one step rarer than the customer's order (on the theory that it's always possible to throw it under the broiler again but the only way to give a customer a less-done steak is to start over with a new piece of meat), and then cooked some more to bring it to the customer-specified level of doneness, cannot possibly be as good as a steak that's cooked only once, and correctly the first time.

Or am I wrong about that?

correct. a steak cooked once then pulled from heat and then cooked again looses a significant amount of moisture even if the added cooking is a short time that it is minimal.

I'm a big fan of DBP and their assortment of dry aged goodness. After reading many of the experiences of under-doness, though, I was reminded of what our waiter told everyone who ordered the south side filet on my first trip. If someone ordered medium rare, he suggested medium would be closer to their preference and if medium was the call he suggested medium well. He did not say anything to those of us who had ordered other cuts.

[Warning: This is a very long post, summarizing our evening at David Burke's. It was an unusual night. I was looking forward to a wonderful, quiet evening with my wife and an old tasty piece of dead cow…little did I know that I was unwittingly boarding a beefy rollercoaster.]

I ate at David Burke's about 1.5 years ago and remember it being the best steakhouse experience that I had ever enjoyed. The cocktail was great (leather infused Manhattan), the appetizers were great (Kobe sashimi, Pretzel crab cake), my steak was great (45-day bone-in rib-eye), and the dessert was OK (donut hole thingies).

I don't go out to eat steak very often, but once or twice a year I get a powerful craving for a nice big chunk of cow flesh. Well, the craving had been building for a couple of months and the recent postings on 65+ day dry aged beef at David Burke's had piqued both my curiosity and my cravings.

I didn't want to partake in too extravagant of a birthday dinner this year, so I suggested to my wife that we go to David Burke's. The 45-day rib-eye I last had was spectacular and I was looking forward to trying something that had been aged even further.

We arrive at David Burke's and were quickly seated (we had reservations). The waiter was friendly and attentive. I open up the menu and see that the Manhattan I was craving was no longer on the menu. At that moment, the automatic harnesses had just lowered and strapped us into the rollercoaster for a ride we were not planning to take.

[note: I am paraphrasing and summarizing with all of the quotes below, the tone throughout all interactions was generally friendly, polite, and kind – although the waiter was a little too chummy and slightly glib.]

Me: I remember having the best Manhattan I've ever had last time I was here, but I don't see it on the menu.

Waiter: When was the last time you were here?

Me: About a year ago.

Waiter: Oh, it's been a while. It seems we are not serving it anymore.

Me: Might there be somebody at the bar that was here over a year ago that might know how to make it?

Waiter: The only guy that would know how to make it is in France. Can I get you something else?

Me: Sure, I'll try the RELENTLESS (this was vodka, almond liqeour, and sage).

*waiter leaves and comes back in a few minutes*

Waiter: [with Mojito in hand] We are out of sage. I brought you my favorite drink. It is a mojito. You are going to love it.

Me: I love mojitos, but it is cold and icy outside. I'm not really in the mood for a drink that is on the rocks.

Waiter: Try it, you are going to love it. [he leaves]

OK. I'll try it. If I can't tolerate it, I'll just order something else. It was a GREAT mojito. It had a very lemony tart and minty foam on the top and the whole thing wasn't very sweet at all – which was good in my book. I drank it. I would have been happier with something else though, I just wasn't in the mood for a cold and icy drink.

We order our appetizers and entrees. Twice baked potato with corn is no longer on the menu. We order the cesear salad w white anchovies (as extras for the salad, they now offer white anchovies and/or crab croutons – there may have been one more optional thing, I can't remember now). We also ordered lobster and braised short rib dumplings – sounded good. My wife ordered a classic filet – Medium. I ordered the 65 day bone-in rib-eye – Medium Rare, on the rare side. The waiter said that the 65 day was more like an 80 day, since it had aged longer. I was excited.

The popovers arrived – they were overcooked, but edible. I remember them being like this last time. I saw other overcooked one being sent to other tables. I did see one set go out that looked just right.

The dumplings arrived. They were very tasty. Two of the dumplings were with lobster, two were with mashed/grounded-like short-ribs inside. The meat was wrapped inside what seemed like gyoza dough and were accompanied with unimpressive sauces. They were just the right amount to get our appetites going. I wished all four of them would have been the short-rib. The lobster ones were not very flavorful and were easily overpowered by the sauces. I would order it again if it were just short-rib dumplings.

The caesar salad was the highlight of the evening. Truly revelatory. This has been talked about plenty on the board, so I won't elaborate. The white anchovies were a delicious addition.

[The pacing of the food was excellent.]

Our steaks arrived. They looked beautiful. My wife's was more like Medium Rare, but close to Medium. Neither one of us are complainers nor are we in the habit of sending back food (I think we've only done it once, and there was a bug in it). So, my wife was fine with the temperature of her steak even though it was a somewhat off. Her filet was great. On to my steak: It was beautifully charred on the outside (almost burned in a couple of areas, I was concerned it was going to be overcooked) and when I cut into it, it was cooked to a perfect temperature, perfectly in line with my expectations. The flavor of the beef was incredible. There was plenty of minerality in the flavor, the expected blue-cheesy tang, something that I can only describe as a very potent beef flavor. It was essence of cow -- as if someone took an entire massive cow and condensed all of its meaty flavor into a 6 x 4 x 2 inch slab. I was very impressed and pleased with the flavor – well worth the $60+ price tag. However……this was the TOUGHEST rib-eye I had ever sank my teeth into. I had to WORK to chew into each and every piece I put into my mouth. My knife hand got a workout. My jaw got a workout. There were two chunks of meat that I simply could not break down into a swallowable mush no matter what the level of determination powering my mastication. I thought to myself – was I wrong in thinking that the extra aging was supposed to break down connective tissue, making the meat more tender. This 80+ day rib-eye was tougher than my 45-day rib-eye or any other rib-eye that I have ever had by an order of magnitude. My wife was paying, she hates any type of confrontation, I smiled and continued to eat my steak. It did taste great. However, she did cringe every time I pulled a half-chewed piece of inedible bristly tough tissue from my mouth. The marbling that I am used to seeing in rib-eyes (and love) wasn't there, but I assumed that with the lengthy aging, the fat breaks down.

*waiter returns*

Waiter: Was that the best steak you've ever had?

Me: I have never tasted such a beefy and flavorful piece of meet in my entire life. It tastes great. *pause, said with hesitance.* I'm not complaining, but for my own knowledge, since I've never had such an old piece of meat before, is it normal for beef to become tough as it gets older. I don't remember my 45-day rib-eye being so tough and this was the toughest-ribeye I've ever had.

Waiter: Oh, rib-eye is a tough piece of meat, that is why I usually don't order it. I usually order sirloin when I go out to eat.

Me: I've had plenty of rib-eyes in my short life and I have never had one so tough. I just wanted to know if that is something that starts happening after a steak gets past a certain age.

Waiter: No, it should be tender. Do you have it in the bag?

[At this point, the busboys had already wrapped up my wife's filet and put it in a take-home bag. I didn't finish my steak (it won) and did not ask for it to be wrapped up.]

Me: No, the busboys took it away.

Waiter: I'll be back.

Time passes…I'm wondering what the hell he's doing. My wife is a bit disturbed, because she hates any sort of drama when we go out to eat…understandably. I didn't want to make an issue of this, I just wanted to answer his question truthfully.

The manager comes to the table [I don't know if this was because the waiter told her something or if it was happenstance – I saw her going to other tables.

Manager: How was your evening?

Me: We have had a very nice time, there have only been a couple of minor disappointments.

Manager: Oh, I'm sorry. What happened?

[I proceeded to very kindly and mildly describe to the manager what happened with my drink order and my experience with the steak.]

Manager: [short summary] A mojito is a poor replacement for a Manhattan – I also wouldn't want an icy drink in Winter. Your steak should not have been tough. You must have gotten a bad cut of meat. I apologize. I am not going to charge you for your steak – you shouldn't have to pay for that.

OK. I'm blown away. I never expected to get comped for a $60+ piece of meat. It was edible. I ate most of it. That said, I would never order it again if that is was the correct texture. She let me know that it should have been SUPER TENDER, not how I described. She educated me some more on the steaks that have been aged longer and let me know I got a bum cut. She was incredibly professional and classy. I was very impressed. She came back and told me she knew how to make the Manhattan (at that point I didn't want it.). She also noted that others have asked for it and that they may put it back on the menu. After this transaction, my mild disappointments and annoyances washed away and I only thought about how positive this experience was. I was doubting David Burke's after tonight, but not any more.

The waiter returns…says nothing about the steak issue…and plops the desert menus in front of us. He was much less friendly than he was earlier, but certainly not inappropriate or rude. I tell my wife that he is probably mistakenly thinking that we will not think to tip him on the total bill with the steak included – which we absolutely planned on doing. Or, he's busy and we were reading into it too much.

I order profiteroles with blueberry & cinnamon ice cream accompanied by blueberry compote and a caramel cashew sauce. It was delicious and I recommend it.

[The waiter returns with the profiteroles AND with a slice of the "prime" cake with a "Happy Birthday" presentation. I express my thanks.]

I don't like birthday attention when we go out to eat (except when it is something subtle, like a message on the menu, like at Trotter's or Moto), so I ask my wife if she had ordered the cake…she said no, but they asked if there was a special occasion when she made the reservation and she said it was my birthday. We were too stuffed to even try the cake. I am not a cake lover and therefore never buy a birthday cake when it's my birthday – I'm just not a big fan.

The night ended positively, I feel that the rollercoaster ride has ended, and that it was a good one, overall. I thanked the waiter very much for his nice service (even though it really wasn't that great – it was prompt and attentive, but a little uncomfortable). I suggest to my wife that we tip slightly over 20% on the total bill + on the price of the steak that was comped. She felt that was appropriate.

The bill arrives and the steak is correctly comped from the bill. We ordered cocktails, wine, appetizers, entrees, dessert, and dessert wine. That said….I was very surprised to see that I was being charged for the MOJITO and that I was being charged for the SLICE OF PRIME. I didn't order either of those items. They were forced on me. The very positive and classy impression that the manager had created during my interaction with her had now completely been undone. The positive feeling was completely undone. The rollercoaster ride wasn't actually over. But, at this point, I was done with ride and wanted to move on. I wasn't going to complain, but I suggested to my wife that we now tip 20% on the total bill, but not including the price of the steak. She disagreed with me, noting that the evening turned out to be much more complicated than she had intended and she didn't want more complications. Well, she was paying, we ended up leaving a 20+% tip on the total bill (including the tax) + adding the comped steak to the ticket.

I have to say….it was an unusual evening filled with ups and downs. Not a disaster by any stretch of the imagination, but definitely unusual. I didn't know how to feel at the end. I still felt very impressed and satisfied that the manager was willing to comp the steak without my asking for it; however, I felt strange about having two items being forced on me and then being charged for them. Weird.

When all is said and done, neither my wife nor I feel any strong desire to return to David Burke's at this time. After my first visit to David Burke's I left thinking that I would visit no other steakhouse besides them when I got the craving for cow flesh. Now, I know I'll go somewhere else next and probably only return to David Burke's on a rare whim at some random time in the future, likely with others, hoping that the "ride" will be closed on that night.

r2g wrote:*waiter leaves and comes back in a few minutes*

Waiter: [with Mojito in hand] We are out of sage. I brought you my favorite drink. It is a mojito. You are going to love it.

You had me at "I brought you my favorite drink." Had me as in, that's when I would have walked out, birthday dinner or no. A waiter bringing me his favorite drink instead of the one I ordered? That's outrageous.

You might say, ah, but then we would have missed what came next. Reading what came next, all things considered, I think you would have been better off.

The one area on which I slightly part company with you is the charge for the birthday cake and the drink you drank (even though you didn't order it). Charging for birthday cake is fairly common in my experience, at least not completely out of bounds, and by drinking the mojito I think you signaled that it was satisfactory. It's ambiguous, though. If the waiter had intimated, "For failing to be able to give you your first two drink orders, I brought you my favorite drink by way of apology," I would have expected that drink to be free. Anyway, other than that, my sympathies are completely with you for an evening that should have turned out differently than it did.

Your roller coaster ride is similar to what I had (previous post a couple of months ago). It's a strange place with seemingly good but not great food and annoying waiters, friendly or not. When someone asks me what I didn't like about the place it's usually the space and the people working there and then I say the food is "pretty good." Their response is usually something like, "pretty good? the dry-aged steak is the best I've had and what about the...???" My reply is typically an "eh, I've had better and won't be back." Needless to say, they're surprised, especially with all the hype to this place.

All I can say is that I had a similar, weird experience that turned me off so much that I don't have an urge to spend a few hundred bucks to feel that way.

Good post.

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who wishes that steak places would start to define their versions medium, m/r, m/w, etc. by color?

jpschust wrote:Out of curiosity, am I the only one who wishes that steak places would start to define their versions medium, m/r, m/w, etc. by color?

Excellent! I propose fire-engine red, vermilion, amaranth and puce as the new standards. And, of course, mauve taupe for those that MUST have their burgers cooked to "safety" temperatures. These would help eliminate the confusion that we are now seeing.

Reading this reminded me of two things

1) this threadabout regional differences in how meat doneness is defined, and

2) this chart from Bern's Steakhouse in Tampa (scroll all the way to the bottom on the page) about exactly what you get when you order a particular thickness of steak cooked to various levels of doneness.

I see that the Bern's site also states, quite unequivocally, that

Aged meat is already tender. (And never bloody.) You can order it cooked less done than you would fresh meat. In fact, fresh meat is cooked well done to tenderize it, and aged meat becomes tougher the longer you cook it.

Here's the chart my mom is talking about (at the bottom).

I'm a "rare, warm center" guy. Makes it tough to order at a restaurant.

riddlemay wrote:The one area on which I slightly part company with you is the charge for the birthday cake and the drink you drank (even though you didn't order it). Charging for birthday cake is fairly common in my experience, at least not completely out of bounds, and by drinking the mojito I think you signaled that it was satisfactory.

Riddlymay,

I disagree, a celebratory dessert offered without request by the customer should not be included in the bill. The customer did not order it, the restaurant offered as way of thanking them for spending the special occasion at their establishment and it is simply bad form, verging on rude, to expect them to pay.

I am guessing, hoping, that the waiter, who sounds a treat, simply made a mistake and a phone call to David Burke will settle the matter quickly. In fact I had a similar situation a few years ago at 160 Blue, which I post about here, with a follow-up post in the same thread. Short version, charging for the non requested item was an error which was rectified with grace.

Possibly I'm lucky, but I have been to David Burke a number of times and not experienced uneven service issues. In fact, on couple of occasions I found the service exemplary.

Enjoy,
Gary

Re having your cake and paying for it, too: This is not an issue in which I'm highly invested emotionally, but it seems to me the rationale for charging for birthday cake is that the customer (very likely upon making his reservation) tells the restaurant it is a "special occasion," and in so doing is saying, "Yes, I would like you to bring a piece of birthday cake for my significant other." So, while it falls somewhere in the gray area between something that was ordered and something that was given, restaurant birthday cake to my mind falls closer to the "something that was ordered" side of the spectrum. Hence, something it's not objectionable to pay for.

Mind you, I'm not saying that free birthday cake isn't a nice lagniappe, if the restaurant decides not to put it on the bill. I think they're smart not to put it on the bill, in the name of good will. But--just me, here--when I've seen it on the bill, I haven't balked.

riddlemay wrote:Re having your cake and paying for it, too: This is not an issue in which I'm highly invested emotionally, but it seems to me the rationale for charging for birthday cake is that the customer (very likely upon making his reservation) tells the restaurant it is a "special occasion," and in so doing is saying, "Yes, I would like you to bring a piece of birthday cake for my significant other." So, while it falls somewhere in the gray area between something that was ordered and something that was given, restaurant birthday cake to my mind falls closer to the "something that was ordered" side of the spectrum. Hence, something it's not objectionable to pay for.

Mind you, I'm not saying that free birthday cake isn't a nice lagniappe, if the restaurant decides not to put it on the bill. I think they're smart not to put it on the bill, in the name of good will. But--just me, here--when I've seen it on the bill, I haven't balked.

I disagree. If the restaurant asks if it's a special occasion and I say yes, and then they bring out something of their choosing, not ours, i do not expect to be charged for it. If they say, "we can do this and this and this for you at this much" then it's a different story.

I'm still floored they couldn't figure out how to make a Manhattan. I wonder if they could manage a gin and tonic.

teatpuller wrote:I'm still floored they couldn't figure out how to make a Manhattan. I wonder if they could manage a gin and tonic.

It wasn't a standard Manhattan, but a leather infused Manhattan which I'd guess requires special ingredients to be on hand.

That reminds me of an old Three Stooges skit where Shemp mixes up a drink in an old boot.

riddlemay wrote:...it seems to me the rationale for charging for birthday cake is that the customer (very likely upon making his reservation) tells the restaurant it is a "special occasion," and in so doing is saying, "Yes, I would like you to bring a piece of birthday cake for my significant other." ... But--just me, here--when I've seen it on the bill, I haven't balked.

I'm with ol' jpschust here. If the restaurant asks whether we're celebrating any occasions and I answer, I am leaving it to the restaurant to decide what--if anything--they wish to do. If I specifically request something, I expect to pay. But if I am simply asked about the "reason" for the dinner and do not do anything other than answer their thoughtful question, I most certainly do not expect to pay and would object to being charged. They can choose to ask the question or not. And, having the answer, they can decide what, if anything they wish to do about it. (And yes, I've been places where we've been asked and nothing happened.)

And being the quiet, shy, retiring, non-confrontational character that I am ( ), I would do more than balk.

Never once in my career have I charged anyone for a birthday/anniversary dessert. For the $1. worth of actual product, I choose to be a sport. Builds good will, but from what I personally have experienced there, it doesn't surprise me at all.

For the lucky that haven't succumbed to DB's erratic service and cooking abilities, consider yourself fortunate. When you're on the receiving end of the DB hammer, it's most irritating... and expensive.