Dismal dinner at the Westin North Shore

With hotel food everywhere improved dramatically over the rubber chicken and peas of yore, I was really looking forward to going to a friend's seder at the gorgeous Westin Chicago North Shore in Wheeling. I had been to a promotional meal catered by the hotel's kosher kitchen, and it was first-rate. I expected the regular kitchen to do even better.

First to last, it was awful. This was not a kosher meal, but my friend had ordered a traditional Jewish menu, or so she thought. My friend hosts an annual large seder for a mix of non-Jews and Jews of varying levels of observance. Obviously, no one attends who insists on strictly kosher fare, but some, including the hostess's daughter, do avoid chometz (yeasted foods) and kitniot (legumes) during Passover. We were a group of 42.

Not only did the Westin make mistakes that you would not expect from a hotel that's trying to be the place for north suburban Jewish events, but the food itself was also pretty bad.

First of all, we arrived to find some of the food already on the table at each place setting, including gefilte fish and the hard-boiled eggs. This is not appropriate for a seder, when more than an hour's service precedes the time when these items can be eaten.

So we sat there watching the fish dry up and I wondered just how long it had been sitting out before we got there. I did eat it, and for my taste it was overly sweet, as was the horseradish with it.

The chicken soup was lukewarm, also sweetish and strongly flavored with what tasted like ginger to me. My friend inquired and somebody came out from the kitchen with a list of innocuous ingredients, but since it's doubtful that the chef who actually made the soup was there at the time, I'm not inclined to believe it.

Guests had been offered an entree choice of chicken, beef, fish or vegetarian. My friend is not a foodie and I'm sure she told the hotel that she wanted a "seder dinner." Here is the menu:

Poultry: Herb Crusted Free Range Half Chicken accompanied by Grilled Asparagus and Potato Latkes

Fish: Potato Crusted Halibut Roasted Halibut Fillet, Topped with Thinly Sliced "Potato Scales" Finished with Sun Dried Tomato Coulis, accompanied by Chickpea Onion Pancake* and Petite Spring Vegetables

Beef: Seasoned Brisket of Beef, Slow Roasted until Tender with Roasted Wild Mushrooms and Caramelized Shallots with Red Wine Demiglace, accompanied by Oven Roasted New Potatoes and Petite Spring Vegetables

Vegetarian: Grilled Portobello Filet and Vegetable Brochette With Scallion Potato Pancakes and Green Herb Coulis

I did not personally see or taste either the fish or vegetarian options. However, both the chicken and beef were served with overcooked asparagus and a lumpy starchy object that might have been an attempt at kugel.

Several of us who ordered chicken were kept waiting until some 30 minutes after the last of the others were served. When it came, it was dry and rubbery. Meanwhile, several of those who were served first were discovering that their chicken was seriously undercooked. I saw these plates and can vouch that this was not a misunderstanding about red color near the bone -- this was bright pink chicken meat. Ultimately, a chef came out, looked at the plates, agreed the chicken was undercooked, and, at my friend's urging, they took five dinners off the bill.

While I was waiting for my chicken, I tasted some of the beef. It was moist, tender and thickly coated with black pepper. I would have described this dish as "pepper-crusted beef." As that, it was fine. It was not fine if what you were supposed to be serving was Jewish-style brisket. While I can see that my friend may have misinterpreted the menu description, food this spicy does not seem appropriate as routine banquet fare.

Those who ate the fish and vegetarian dinners also complained the food was too peppery, as did some of those who had chicken that wasn't either under- or overcooked.

Dessert was almond macaroons and ice cream. My friend wouldn't have cared about ice cream being served after meat (there was also butter on the table), but her daughter wasn't happy that the ice cream came in a waffle cup.

I don't normally expect a hotel to know all about what is and isn't permitted for Passover, and, of course, people who don't follow the letter of the law all have their own idiosyncrasies about what they do observe, but it strikes me as extremely odd that this Westin, which boasts of two extensive kosher kitchens and an executive chef who is supposedly extensively trained in kashruth, couldn't do better than that. I certainly expect them to at least ask their customer about what she expects.

I'm also amazed that this large, very upscale hotel can't manage to properly cook banquet fare for a group of 42 people.

The service was very good; a server was always in the room. There was some difficulty over the dinner for one invited guest who was ill and unable to attend. The hostess send his dinner home to him and the manager came out and explained that it was against their policy. The meal was ordered and paid for -- I don't see why anyone would object to allowing it to be carried out. The family had brought containers, so it wasn't a matter of the hotel not having them. Ultimately, the manager agreed to look the other way, but I wonder why it was even an issue. For that matter, why not be prepared to box up leftovers, something almost every restaurant does as a matter of course?

This was not the only seder in the hotel that night, but I did not encounter anyone from the others to ask how their food was.

Anyway, I go to a fair number of catered events at hotels, and it's been a couple of decades since I went to one as bad as this.

*I doubt my friend would have noticed this or realized that chickpeas aren't kosher for Passover for Ashkenazim, and I don't know if this was actually served, but at least some of the people at the seder would have been distressed by eating kitniot.

LAZ wrote:There was some difficulty over the dinner for one invited guest who was ill and unable to attend. The hostess send his dinner home to him and the manager came out and explained that it was against their policy. The meal was ordered and paid for -- I don't see why anyone would object to allowing it to be carried out. The family had brought containers, so it wasn't a matter of the hotel not having them. Ultimately, the manager agreed to look the other way, but I wonder why it was even an issue. For that matter, why not be prepared to box up leftovers, something almost every restaurant does as a matter of course?

This is a weird hotel thing. I organize large conferences, and have made a similar request at many hotels: "Could we please box up the uneaten food?" (with the intention of bringing it to a homeless shelter). I've been shot down at every request, with the hotel claiming that there's too big of a potential liability if the food isn't store appropriately and, consequently, someone gets sick.

Yes, every restaurant in the world offers doggy bags. The difference? Most restaurants (chains excepted*) don't have in-house lawyers, so there's no one in the company--trying to justify his or her pay--to say, "Wait! We could get sued if we let people take food home." Hotels chains, on the other hand, may have dozens of lawyers on staff, and one of those lawyers, at some point in history, decided there was this massive threat of potential lawsuits because guests were allowed to take food home from them. One hotel chain probably banned the practice, then another, then another, all because of one overly cautious attorney.

* Of course, chains like McDonald's, Burger King, KFC, Taco Bell, etc., have huge legal staffs, and they've never seen the potential liability of offering food to be consumed off site!

LAZ, I feel your pain. Normally, we host Passover at my house and while it's a LOT of work, the rewards are well worth it. A few years back, however, our entire family of 26 took part in a Seder package offered at the Deerfield Hyatt and it was just awful.

That said, just as you posted, I have read quite a bit about how well-versed the Westin 'North Shore' is at providing Kosher services, so I'm astounded by the gaffes you describe. Like you, I would have expected a lot better. OTOH, nothing that's happened food-wise at that hotel has turned out nearly as good as it was hyped to be.

This year, my immediate family and I were traveling until the night of the 2nd seder, so we were unable to host. For that reason, we again went out -- this time to George's What's Cooking in Deerfield (my mother's choice), who offered a Passover Package at $24.95 for adults, $14.95 for kids. The food was pretty bleh. Chopped liver, gefilte fish, matzoh ball soup and salad were served first. Next, diners had a choice of entree -- broiled whitefish, chicken or brisket -- with a variety of oddly chosen sides. FWIW, the chicken and fish were generously portioned but the rubbery brisket was a (thankfully) tiny serving. Desserts consisted of family-style plates of honey cake, macaroons and yucky chocolates. Service was friendly and fairly thorough. Still, the experience was pretty chaotic and absurd, overall. The restaurant was occupied by many large parties; some celebrating Passover and some not. Tables were so crammed together that folks were having trouble getting up to use the bathrooms, etc. At first, it was too hot. Then, the a/c was turned on and it was way too cold.

Anyway, at this point I'm inclined to believe that the only way to experience a decent seder is to have it in someone's home. The lure of these places that offer seders can be pretty convincing, perhaps because hosting can be a ton of work. But I think they appeal mostly to our 'wishful thinking.' The real shame of it is that these places that sell Passover will continue to do so, even though they pretty much suck at it across the board.

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ronnie_suburban wrote:Anyway, at this point I'm inclined to believe that the only way to experience a decent seder is to have it in someone's home.

It has been a few years but the Standard Club does a great job as an at home surrogate. The food is excellent at every Standard Club event/affair that I have every been to, including seder. Of course, you have to be a member or invited by a member.

Max & Bennys has a pretty decent seder. It isnt the same as home but is better then what you guys have described. Looks like you chose the wrong side of Waukegan Rd. Ronnie.

iblock9 wrote:

ronnie_suburban wrote:Anyway, at this point I'm inclined to believe that the only way to experience a decent seder is to have it in someone's home.

It has been a few years but the Standard Club does a great job as an at home surrogate. The food is excellent at every Standard Club event/affair that I have every been to, including seder. Of course, you have to be a member or invited by a member.

Max & Bennys has a pretty decent seder. It isnt the same as home but is better then what you guys have described. Looks like you chose the wrong side of Waukegan Rd. Ronnie.

Of course, the Standard Club is definitely in a class of its own and doesn't really count as a 'restaurant,' since it is not open to the public.

As for Max & Benny's, I've been avoiding the place for years over an incident I personally experienced there, which I'll be happy to describe by pm. The restaurant expressed absolutely zero concern over the incident -- even as we brought it to their attention -- and I've not returned since.

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ronnie_suburban wrote:Anyway, at this point I'm inclined to believe that the only way to experience a decent seder is to have it in someone's home. The lure of these places that offer seders can be pretty convincing, perhaps because hosting can be a ton of work. But I think they appeal mostly to our 'wishful thinking.' The real shame of it is that these places that sell Passover will continue to do so, even though they pretty much suck at it across the board.

Ronnie,

I'm inclined to agree with you, but I wouldn't limit this observation to Passover alone. The same is true of any holiday. This experience could just as easily happened on Mother's Day, Easter, New Year's Eve, Valentine's Day, etc. Compounded by the fact that LAZ was starting with hotel food in the first place...well, that's just a recipe for disaster. One thing I have learned is that you can expect the worst a place has to offer when dining out on a popular "eating out occasion".

We did second night at Carlos' this year and it was fantastic. It's certainly no bargain ($90 pp), but the food is fantastic and they bring in a rabbi who does a really nice (and brief) job.

stevez wrote:Compounded by the fact that LAZ was starting with hotel food in the first place...well, that's just a recipe for disaster. One thing I have learned is that you can expect the worst a place has to offer when dining out on a popular "eating out occasion".

I don't necessarily think that "hotel food" has to be bad. As I said, I eat hotel banquet food all the time, and it's really improved, generally. I am not talking about a special-occasion dinner sponsored by the hotel; this was a private, catered banquet ordered months in advance, as you would for a wedding, a business dinner or other party.

My friend has held seders at hotels all over the suburbs for years. A group of 42 people is small for a hotel dinner, but too large to handle in her home (even if she cooked, which she doesn't). Other hotels have produced far better dinners than this. And whatever hotel she holds it at generally has several other seders going, so I'm thinking that this is a relatively common practice.

I would not have been surprised if the food were merely mediocre, and I would have dismissed the gaffes related to Passover if this hotel weren't hyping itself as an expert in Jewish catering. (Last year, my friend held her seder at the DoubleTree in Skokie and they put noodles in the soup.) But some of the errors we experienced were egregious no matter what kind of event. I can imagine someone ordering a similar menu for a wedding or bar mitzvah.

Undercooked chicken, overspiced beef and setting out perishable food when there was to be a lengthy program before the meal are simply unacceptable.

I agree with a lot of what beens said here-.

One year when a family member was ill and no one had the heart to cook,
we had a take out seder fom Max and Bennys and I found the food to be very disappointing.
I've also had such dismal service there that I refuse to return as a matter of principal.
If I want deli I go to Max's, by Party City.

I have had some acceptable but not great food from Hel's kitchen at our temple's Women's seder.

I have heard Carlos' second seder is good, and coincidentally am good friends from HS with the Rabbi who runs it,
so it's nice to hear she does a good job,
as I'm usually doing a family thing and it's not quite apropos to take my young'uns there...

Seders can be enjoyable or endurable....
but it is astonishingly bad form for a professional kitchen to serve raw chicken at any time and waffle bowls on Pesach!

Can't speak for their seder but we attended a bar mitzvah there in Feb and were HIGHLY unimpressed. The food just wasn't very good. Clearly not memorable, but afterward, I heard they have had an ongoing problem with undercooked chicken being served.

LAZ wrote:...My friend wouldn't have cared about ice cream being served after meat (there was also butter on the table), but her daughter wasn't happy that the ice cream came in a waffle cup...

Sorry, I know nothing of seders, but why is a waffle cup inappropriate? Just curious. Other cultures are very interesting to me, especially in relation to food.

Pie Lady wrote:

LAZ wrote:...My friend wouldn't have cared about ice cream being served after meat (there was also butter on the table), but her daughter wasn't happy that the ice cream came in a waffle cup...

Sorry, I know nothing of seders, but why is a waffle cup inappropriate? Just curious. Other cultures are very interesting to me, especially in relation to food.

During Passover, Jews are not supposed to eat any form of bread or other leavened products.

Aha! I didn't know they had leavener in there.

waffles are typically leavened with baking powder and baking soda

Leavening for Passover is not just dependent on the absence of leavening agents such as baking soda or baking powder. There are also laws regarding the length of time in which grain products can rise. For example, the preparation of matzo (unleavened bread with a cracker-like consistency, which contains no baking soda or baking powder) can only have the flour in contact with liquids (water or eggs) for a limited period of time before or during baking; most are removed from the oven only five minutes after they are kneaded. It should also be noted that there are varying interpretations of what is acceptable for Passover.

There's more than a littel "caveat emptor" at play here. Opting for a kosher-esque seder meal that is prepared in a non-kosher kitchen is like asking for a vegan meal without ascertaining that the people involved know what that entails.

I had friends growing up who routinely went to ethnic restaurants for their seders merely bringing a box of matzos along for the "passover" touch (so they'd have Szechuan "seder" one year and Greek another). Unless you're going the extra mile (and dollar) and paying for kosher supervision, you're never going to be assured that all the people involved know the rules - especially when Jews can agree on the rules among themselves.

I attended the strangest cocktail party at the Westin last night. An organization held a local event to coincide with an announcement overseas -- they booked a banquet room and had a video screen set up so we could watch via Skype.

On the invitation, the party was promoted as serving "light appetizers." These consisted of:

A pot of mashed potatoes.
A pot of mashed sweet potatoes.
A pot of "country gravy" and bowls of various toppings for the above.
Cookies and brownies.

Am I wrong in thinking that this is an extremely odd repast to serve as "appetizers"?

I have seen mashed-potato bars before, but never one served all on its own like this.

The food was OK, for what it was, though the sweet potatoes were strongly flavored with honey and way too sweet for my taste. The toppings were items such as green onions, marshmallows, sauteed mushrooms, bacon bits, shredded cheese -- nothing hearty like chili or anything of that kind.

I tried to find out whether the party organizers had specially requested this menu or whether it had been urged on them by the hotel, but the people who had actually set up the event were at the overseas affair. There was a cash bar, and it could be they were just trying to serve something that would be low cost, but it still seems like a peculiar menu. Missing from the buffet were the essentials of salt, pepper and napkins. (I went and snagged some cocktail napkins from the bartender; as far as I could see, no napkins were ever put on the buffet table.)

The other thing that was strange was the room set up. I'm accustomed to public cocktail events with limited seating and stand-up tables, but those usually have a menu of finger foods and small plates. This buffet was supplied with full-size dinner plates and what seating there was -- not enough for the crowd of perhaps 40 people -- was at regular dinner-height tables (round four-tops, a little tippy). Midway through, as more people arrived, they did set up a couple of larger tables.

I don't know how many guests were anticipated, nor, again, whether the set-up was the hotel's idea or the organizers', though it suggests a lack of attention to detail on the latter's part that doesn't bode well for the large and complex upcoming event this party was held to promote.

"Odd" as in about a dozen years past its time? I believe I attended a bar mitzvah on the North Shore in the mid-90's where that was offered along with passed hors d'oeuvres. Even then they served the potatoes in a martini glass (and they weren't the only items served).

I have attended seminars at the Hyatt on Wacker/Michigan. They also served mashed potatoes as an appetizer. I found it very odd. It's not finger food. How do you eat mashed potatoes with a spoon while mingling with a glass of something in your other hand?

tcdup wrote:How do you eat mashed potatoes with a spoon while mingling with a glass of something in your other hand?

A lot of places serve small plate-type food at cocktail events. You're supposed to hold your glass by the stem while you juggle plate and fork, I guess. But you usually don't see full-size dinner plates without adequate seating or at least stand-up tables.

As I said, I've seen mashed-potato bars before. But never as the sole offering. And as spinynorman99 recalls, they usually serve the spuds in fancy glassware, not plunk them down on a warmer in what looked like the pot they'd been mashed in.

Anyway, anyone who plans a food event at this hotel should be warned that they require serious oversight.

spinynorman99 wrote:"Odd" as in about a dozen years past its time? I believe I attended a bar mitzvah on the North Shore in the mid-90's where that was offered along with passed hors d'oeuvres. Even then they served the potatoes in a martini glass (and they weren't the only items served).

Even at The Standard Club, we didn't do these stations any more. So over! I can't remember ever doing a mashed potato bar in the 10 years I was chef. But we did do plenty of tacky sh**!

I really can't think of any occasion,
in the adult world, outside the setup
for some epic movie food fight scene,
where a Tater Toppin's Fix'n Bar
wouldn't scream out - UH? HUH? WUH?!..

This makes me think of my brother-in-law who loved mashed potatoes probably more than anything. I remember one Thanksgiving my sister-in-law made two huge platters of mashed potatoes (no shit, I'm talking like 5lb bags of potatoes per platter)...one for all of us and one for him.

Anyone remember The Mashed Potato Club in River North? We were going to give him a gift certificate for Christmas but it closed.

I've gone back and reread the original post (not the first one in the thread, the mashed potato one) every day. I think what makes it so beautiful, such a splendid example of PR blowing its own foot off with a howitzer, is not only the mashed potato bar, hilarious in itself (what could top that? A cracker bar with silverplate bins of Ritzes, Triscuits and Weetabixes? A dog biscuit tasting?), not only the cash bar ("Publicize us! That'll be $6.50") but the glorious fact that the organizers then made the people sentenced to this "party" watch them enjoying another, much better party live on Skype. What did you do, Leah, that made you deserve this fate?

SCUBAchef wrote:I really can't think of any occasion,
in the adult world, outside the setup
for some epic movie food fight scene,
where a Tater Toppin's Fix'n Bar
wouldn't scream out - UH? HUH? WUH?!..

I love that I can sing this to Gilligan's Island, and changing the scan a bit, to Yellow Rose of Texas.

Mike G wrote:What did you do, Leah, that made you deserve this fate?

Write a letter to Amazing Stories when I was 13.

No PR professionals were involved. Except, of course, for the hotel, this was an entirely amateur affair -- in every sense of the word -- hosted by an all-volunteer group. In terms of the menu, I don't blame them so much as whoever in Westin F&B who sold them the package. I am concerned, though, that if this group can't get it together to organize a cocktail party (and there were problems with the Skype set-up, as well as the room arrangement), they aren't going to do a good job on their more ambitious project. Fortunately, it isn't a food event.

LAZ wrote:I attended the strangest cocktail party at the Westin last night. An organization held a local event to coincide with an announcement overseas -- they booked a banquet room and had a video screen set up so we could watch via Skype.

On the invitation, the party was promoted as serving "light appetizers." These consisted of:

A pot of mashed potatoes.
A pot of mashed sweet potatoes.

Seems perfectly appropriate to me.

But then, I'm assuming the party was a celebration of the contributions of ancient Andean cultures to world cuisine.

Relatedly (though, not directly), it looks like Lettuce Entertain You Enterprises will be taking over the restaurants at the Westin North Shore . . .

at the Daily Herald's website, Rachel Levin wrote:Lettuce Entertain You Enterprises got the go-ahead this week to start collecting bids to convert empty restaurant space in the Westin Chicago North Shore into a casual Italian restaurant.

The Wheeling village board voted unanimously Monday to approve the project.

“How exciting this is for the village of Wheeling,” said Jon Sfondilis, village manager.

Lettuce Entertain You restaurant coming to Wheeling Westin

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