justjoan wrote:

Mhays wrote:Sorry, in my stupor I forgot that I'd also asked about this: the very friendly waitress said they get them from a new source, but that you can get the ones they used to use at Trader Joe's (though I've only seen the mini-pretzel-baguettes there) She mentioned they now source them from a different bakery...in Oak Park maybe?

la briola's pretzel rolls (mini baguettes, not hamburger buns) are sold at olivia's market in wicker park (on wabansia, just west of damen).

also at the Prudential Plaza Farmer's market on Tuesdays

G Wiv wrote:Kuma's has a small kitchen, when they are very busy, which is 99% of the time, they tend to politely refuse even simple changes to the menu as written.

Works for me. In that case, I commend them for offering a veggie burger at all - and completely understand why the price is the same as a meat-burger.

Drover, if you look upthread -there are veggie options at Kuma's (though, not, apparently, an eggplant sandwich) that IMHO are much better than a Gardenburger, so your veggie friend can enjoy your company and Kuma's as well.

And thanks, Kenny and Joan, for finding the pretzel roll...

Mhays wrote:

G Wiv wrote:Kuma's has a small kitchen, when they are very busy, which is 99% of the time, they tend to politely refuse even simple changes to the menu as written.

Works for me. In that case, I commend them for offering a veggie burger at all - and completely understand why the price is the same as a meat-burger.

Drover, if you look upthread -there are veggie options at Kuma's (though, not, apparently, an eggplant sandwich) that IMHO are much better than a Gardenburger, so your veggie friend can enjoy your company and Kuma's as well.

Thanks for the tip but I don't recall saying that it was the only veggie option. It's an option that's different from your ordinary no-meat dishes so that there's something to cause a veg to actually like going there rather than simply put up with going there.

I tend to like Thai food much better than Polish food. I never understood why Polish restaurants don't offer any Thai options. Once I asked a restaurant I won't call out here to make me a pierogi with ginger, thai basil, and rice powder. They refused!

G Wiv wrote:Frankly I seem more willing than some to enjoy a place for what it is...

Enjoy,
Gary 'love em for what they are, not what you want them to be' Wiviott

I agree with your Kuma's idiosyncrasyphilia, but I guess I don't see a whole lot of people here disagreeing with it--even the ones who would tweak the veggieburger if they could.

I think the secret to Kuma's pulling off its idiosyncrasies is the sense of goodwill the place emanates. Even more than the excellent burgers, beers and other provisions. It could have that great bar food and drink and people would still say WTF at the oddities of Kuma's if it had the wrong attitude. It's the intangible likability of the place that is responsible (I feel) for most people taking it for what it is instead of wishing it were something else.

Drover wrote:Actually the question was why would a place that specializes in meat burgers bother with a veggieburger?

Perhaps the same reason they also offer all their burgers with chicken thigh meat or chicken tenders?

I think what Kuma's puts ON the protein of choice is what makes it special; the burger patty itself isn't something I haven't had at numerous other places.

Jamie

Jamieson22 wrote: I think what Kuma's puts ON the protein of choice is what makes it special; the burger patty itself isn't something I haven't had at numerous other places.

I have to say, I can't agree there, either - although the toppings were terrific, it was the charred, beefy richness and perfect dark pink center of the burger itself that got me; I'd have eaten one straight-up, sans bun and fries. Yes, there are a couple other places that turn out a good burger, but I can count them on the fingers of one hand.

I'm going to stop talking now, as I seem to have developed run-on of the mouth (or in this case, fingers)

LaBriola's Pretzel mini baguettes can also be found at Panozzo's Itailian Market at 13th and Michigan. I like to serve bratwurst on them.

LTH,

All the Kuma's talk got me in the mood, stopped just before 10pm and we caught two seats at the bar, no problem. I had the Bongzilla burger, pretzel roll, house made fruit chutney, caramelized onions, cheese and a Sheboygan style brat. Yep, that's right, a burger with a brat topping. How could this Wisconsinite born and bred resist.

Bongzilla



I had a bite of the Mayhem, tasty, and the fresh jalapenos hit the spot, but the Bongzilla was the perfect burger/brat combo after a few bourbons.

Mayhem



Enjoy,
Gary

If you tell them to make a bongzilla burger without the burger, that qualifies as vegetarian in my book

G Wiv wrote:I had the Bongzilla burger, pretzel roll, house made fruit chutney, caramelized onions, cheese and a Sheboygan style brat. Yep, that's right, a burger with a brat topping. How could this Wisconsinite born and bred resist. [ . . . ]I had a bite of the Mayhem, tasty, and the fresh jalapenos hit the spot, but the Bongzilla was the perfect burger/brat combo after a few bourbons.

[Emphasis added.]

I'll bet!

Mhays wrote:I have to say, I can't agree there, either - although the toppings were terrific, it was the charred, beefy richness and perfect dark pink center of the burger itself that got me; I'd have eaten one straight-up, sans bun and fries.

I agree with Mhays that Kuma's protein stands on its own, even without all the added accoutremonts. I'll probably be promptly banned from the board for saying this, but I like to keep my burgers simple; I don't even like bacon on my burger (I'll eat it, but won't enjoy it as much). So, for me, a Kuma's burger is good even without the pulled pork/bratwurst/hot dog, gilding-the-liliness.

Jamieson22 wrote:

Drover wrote:Actually the question was why would a place that specializes in meat burgers bother with a veggieburger?

Perhaps the same reason they also offer all their burgers with chicken thigh meat or chicken tenders?

I think what Kuma's puts ON the protein of choice is what makes it special; the burger patty itself isn't something I haven't had at numerous other places.

Jamie

And that about sums it up.

aschie30 wrote:I agree with Mhays that Kuma's protein stands on its own, even without all the added accoutremonts. I'll probably be promptly banned from the board for saying this, but I like to keep my burgers simple; I don't even like bacon on my burger (I'll eat it, but won't enjoy it as much). So, for me, a Kuma's burger is good even without the pulled pork/bratwurst/hot dog, gilding-the-liliness.

And I guess I come from the opposite end. And don't get me wrong, I enjoy a simple patty as well. But when I just want a great patty, this isn't my place. I don't see what's so special about the patty itself, especially at the prices they charge. To me, it's the presentation, particularly the unique and numerous combinations of accoutrements, that make Kuma's worthwhile.

I honestly don't understand all the hype about this place; i think it's a touch overpriced and I refuse to ever wait in line for one of their burgers. But I do enjoy it enough that every once in a while I'll stop by in the early afternoon before the crowds mob the place and quietly enjoy a unique blend of ingredients stacked on a bun, or pretzel roll, or whatever.

Kennyz wrote:I never understood why Polish restaurants don't offer any Thai options.

Really?

Kennyz wrote:
I never understood why Polish restaurants don't offer any Thai options.


Really?

I'm pretty darned sure that was a joke...

Mhays wrote:I have to say, I can't agree there, either - although the toppings were terrific, it was the charred, beefy richness and perfect dark pink center of the burger itself that got me; I'd have eaten one straight-up, sans bun and fries. Yes, there are a couple other places that turn out a good burger, but I can count them on the fingers of one hand.

Speaking of which, can anyone help me out with the meat mix Kuma's might be using? So far they make my ideal burger but my attempts to duplicate it at home are still off. My last attempt was 100% ground chuck ground fresh by my butcher.

JohnnyConatus

geli wrote:

Kennyz wrote:
I never understood why Polish restaurants don't offer any Thai options.


Really?

I'm pretty darned sure that was a joke...

geli,

Thanks for stating what I had hoped was obvious. I guess not to everyone.

Kennyz

(however, ginger and cilantro inside a pierogi doesn't sound half bad to me)

(however, ginger and cilantro inside a pierogi doesn't sound half bad to me)

ummmm....me neither. Polish pot-stickers!

Drover wrote:

aschie30 wrote:I agree with Mhays that Kuma's protein stands on its own, even without all the added accoutremonts. I'll probably be promptly banned from the board for saying this, but I like to keep my burgers simple; I don't even like bacon on my burger (I'll eat it, but won't enjoy it as much). So, for me, a Kuma's burger is good even without the pulled pork/bratwurst/hot dog, gilding-the-liliness.

And I guess I come from the opposite end. And don't get me wrong, I enjoy a simple patty as well. But when I just want a great patty, this isn't my place. I don't see what's so special about the patty itself, especially at the prices they charge. To me, it's the presentation, particularly the unique and numerous combinations of accoutrements, that make Kuma's worthwhile.

I honestly don't understand all the hype about this place; i think it's a touch overpriced and I refuse to ever wait in line for one of their burgers. But I do enjoy it enough that every once in a while I'll stop by in the early afternoon before the crowds mob the place and quietly enjoy a unique blend of ingredients stacked on a bun, or pretzel roll, or whatever.

I agree. Every component of my burger was great, and the sum of it's parts put it towards the top of my best burger list....say...maybe...#5 or #6. It is always standard practice for me to ask if they grind their own meat. If the answer is "yes", then I order rare. If not, I go with medium-rare. Unfortunately they don't, and I believe they get the patties pre-shaped. If they did go with the in-house grind, it would probably make #2 or #3 best burger. Though delicious, the patty was the weakest component for me.

Regarding meatless/veggie options, while the Gardenburgers are apparently off the menu, they've been replaced by a large portobello mushroom cap. Can't comment on how they taste, but my dining companions enjoyed them. Me, I went with a medium-rare Darkthrone. Cooked perfectly, it made the long-overdue first time visit quite memorable.

Regarding the burgers, they are not ground on site but are shaped on site. They hand pat them from bulk beef.

Yeah, given the size of their kitchen, it would be next to impossible to grind 1200# a week on their own. But I do know where they source their product.

Sweetbread wrote:It is always standard practice for me to ask if they grind their own meat. If the answer is "yes", then I order rare. If not, I go with medium-rare. Unfortunately they don't, and I believe they get the patties pre-shaped. If they did go with the in-house grind, it would probably make #2 or #3 best burger.

Im curious on your logic on this. is it a safety issue? Meat plants are USDA inspected while restaurants aren't.

gp60004 wrote:

Sweetbread wrote:It is always standard practice for me to ask if they grind their own meat. If the answer is "yes", then I order rare. If not, I go with medium-rare. Unfortunately they don't, and I believe they get the patties pre-shaped. If they did go with the in-house grind, it would probably make #2 or #3 best burger.

Im curious on your logic on this. is it a safety issue? Meat plants are USDA inspected while restaurants aren't.

I am also curious too as a medium-rare burger, if it was contaminated with e. coli, is not cooked hot enough to kill the bacteria. Given the amount of ground beef recalled from USDA inspected plants in the past year (Topps Meat - 21.7 million lbs, Westland - 143 million lbs, Nebraska Beef - 5.3 million lbs) maybe we should all be ordering our burgers well-done if we don't know the source of the ground beef!

If you're a child, elderly, or you have a weak immune system, then sure, you should be getting your burgers well-done.

You should also not be eating raw oysters, raw cookie dough, mousse, runny eggs, or raw fish.

But I think almost everyone here falls outside that category, and thus should take the risk, because it's really worth the reward. If you're a healthy adult, your odds of anything more than a few days of serious discomfort from e coli are slim, and your odds of that are also fairly low.

So, yes, it's generally safer if your meat is being ground in small batches, with the grinder disinfected between each use, which is something the big meatpacking plants don't do. But you're really fairly safe, anyway.

Life is full of little risks. You can miss out on a lot if you avoid them.

I'm in the camp of folks who just don't get Kuma's. I live close by and really wanted to love it. For me, the patty itself is critical. In fact, I prefer a simple burger with lettuce, tomato, ketchup, mustard, and pickle. Perhaps some grilled onions.

I found the burger at Kuma's to be really underseasoned. It really needed more salt, at the least. And, my medium rare burger was definitely medium.

Plus, the first three beers I wanted were all out. Not good news.

Given all the positive reviews, I've wanted to give Kuma's a second try for months. But, it's hard to go back to some place you didn't love knowing you may have to wait more than an hour for a table.

gp60004 wrote:

Sweetbread wrote:It is always standard practice for me to ask if they grind their own meat. If the answer is "yes", then I order rare. If not, I go with medium-rare. Unfortunately they don't, and I believe they get the patties pre-shaped. If they did go with the in-house grind, it would probably make #2 or #3 best burger.

Im curious on your logic on this. is it a safety issue? Meat plants are USDA inspected while restaurants aren't.

It's all about surface area and time for the bacteria to grow.

Bacteria isn't intrinsic to meat, it is spread to the meat's outer surface when it comes in contact with another contaminated surface. When a burger is ground pre-shipping, any bacteria that was on the outside of the meat gets spread throughout the product, where it then has the opportunity to grow on a huge surface area. When it's ground on-site, you only have to worry about the bacteria that has been able to grow on the outside of the piece of meat. For a tasty, bloody burger, I'm willing to gamble that my immune system will take care of that amount of bacteria.

The USDA does NOT recommend getting burgers rare or medium-rare. However, that's how I prefer my burger. Also, at places like Kuma's, medium-rare is the equivalent to rare at another place. At Kuma's I ordered medium-rare upon the recommendation of the server.

I eat a lot of sketchy stuff, so to be clear, this isn't about a bacteria hang-up.

In my opinion, beef ground on-site tastes better. Just like most coffee snobs only drink fresh-ground beans. Other examples: pepper and parmesan. And all of us would agree that freshly picked vegetables taste better. I don't see why beef would be any exception.

well said sweetbread.

I finally made the pilgrimage to Kuma's this evening and I'm not sure what direction to take with this post. It was slightly after 10pm when we arrived so we were seated immediately. I ordered the Mastodon Burger, medium rare and it was prepared perfectly. The fries were done to a lovely deep brown crispness; not a limp spud in the bunch. Sounds like a delightful evening, no?

No. And it wasn't entirely the fault of Kuma's staff. I put a significant amount of the blame squarely on the group I was with. Yet, there was an underlying hostility on the part of Kuma's people that was unnecessary and counterproductive. It was one of those situations that, as Chris Rock said in riffing on O.J. Simpson's (alleged) murder of Nicole Brown and Ronald Goldman, "I ain't sayin' it's right...but I understand."

The problem started with the group I was with, and their expectations. These are people who, when we go out, are used to going to bars that serve food. As it became clear pretty early on, Kuma's is a restaurant that happens to have a bar. Not everyone in the group wanted to eat, creating a sense of disappointment in our waitress, knowing that we were not going to work up an overly large tab.

Add to this the issue of Kuma's inability to accommodate larger groups (we were eleven), and the insistence of some in the group that Kuma's change their way of doing business to suit our needs, and you can see the potential for dining disaster.

The trouble started when one of our group decided, without asking the waitress, that he was going to rearrange the tables for four into one long table in order to seat us all together. Hackles were raised, the waitress pushed the tables back to their original position, and the manager was called for. All by this one guy, mind you, before I could get in and try to negotiate the situation calmly. When the manager came over I managed to massage the situation, explaining our needs while at the same time recognizing his concerns, and we came to a compromise arrangement that left the tables end to end as we wanted, but with a gap between them to give the waitress room to maneuver.

In spite of the polite way this issue was resolved, we had still shown up the waitress on her home turf. Strike one with the waitress.

Next came the ordering. One guy, the table mover, tried to order a Kuma Burger without the fried egg. The waitress bristled and said, "But that's the Kuma Burger", as if leaving off the egg was a personal affront to the actual Kuma. The guy said he wanted a burger with cheese and bacon, but not the egg. The waitress tried to make suggestions for a substitute (in hindsight, the Mastodon would have suited his tastes perfectly), but he wasn't interested. Ultimately, the guy decided not to have a burger at all and just sipped his beer for an hour. Strike two with the waitress.

As I mentioned earlier, not everyone was there to eat. Out of the eleven of us, only five ordered full meals and one person ordered a plate of fries. And even though everyone was drinking (some folks got those great big $12 beers not knowing that they cost $12. Boy were they pissed), it was evident that we were going to ring up only a modest check. Strike three with the waitress.

Fortunately, she did not have the same power as an umpire, so we were not tossed out of the game. It did make for a tense evening until I had a chance to pull her aside and explain our situation; how this was not the normal type of venue for our group, how it was our fault that it was poorly chosen given what we were used to, and how I sympathized with her situation and promised her that in spite of everything else, we were a low maintenance group and she wouldn't need to focus too much attention on us, all wrapped up in a big apology.

She warmed up, but it was still apparent that Kuma's and our bunch were a bad fit. There were some in my group (table moving guy in particular, but there were others too) who behaved like spoiled little girls who weren't getting their way. At some point you just need to suck it up and act like a grown up. If you're unhappy here, then fine, next time we'll go somewhere else. But we're here now and that's the way it is. Get over it.

Now that I'm in the comfort of my own home and have time to assess the situation, I've come to some conclusions. Bear in mind that what I am about to say has absolutely no irony or sarcasm. I mean it with all sincerity and no rancor whatsoever.

It is my impression that Kuma's Corner was opened for, and aimed at attracting a Heavy Metal loving, tattoo festooned, counter culture crowd. Their exposure on LTH and "Check Please" has made them a destination for a more mainstream crowd for which they are not prepared nor, it would seem, are they interested in serving.

And I'm fine with that. I have nothing but good things to say about the food. I think if I was in there with a smaller group who understood what Kuma's was all about, the service would have been exemplary. As it was, the waitress did a fine job, following the path mentioned above, suck it up and act like a grown up.

The crowd of "outsiders" that has been streaming into the place since the "Check Please" episode is akin to a bunch of plaid pants wearing, country clubbers from Barrington invading a gay S&M bar on Halsted Street (just an example, I have no idea if such a place exists either on Halsted or anywhere else for that matter) and expecting everything to change in order to make them feel more at ease. Gee, I wonder why the regulars aren't welcoming these folks with open arms.

That's all I've got on this one folks. Kuma's will not be a regular stop for me. Not because of tonight's experience. Frankly, I think ten bucks for a burger is a bit steep. I can get an outstanding half pound burger at Crabbby Kim's on Western for $3 on half price Thursdays. And while the music and its volume are not offensive to me, I do find it distracting and absolutely impossible to carry on a conversation in Kuma's.

This place was created for people of like tastes and a common mindset that I do not share. I have no resentment over that, and I wish them much success as they navigate the treacherous waters of a mainstream crowd that is displacing their regular customers to no one's satisfaction.

Buddy

BuddyRoadhouse wrote:nor, it would seem, are they interested in serving.

Couldn't disagree more.

I've had exceptional service every time I've been there, often times with people far far outside the heavy metal demographic. It's no surprise that they wouldn't be eager to serve a group of 11 when only 5 were eating, especially after said group tried to rearrange tables to accommodate a party for which they clearly aren't sized for. While I'm slightly happy that 11 less people are likely to crowd me out of a table there in the future, I really do feel the need to counter the assertion that they're not interested in hosting people who lack a penchant for death metal.