Amata wrote:I don't have any experience with prepared or powdered mole, but GREEN powder sounds all wrong for your turkey. As you know, there are lots of types of ground up stuff classified as mole, even guaca-mole, and the mole traditionally served with turkey is mole poblano, with a base of chiles anchos plus about 15 other ingredients. If you get something from a Mexican grocery store, I should think the jars of dark mole paste would do a better job.

Amata

He could also make an emergency trip to Ann Arbor to pick up the prepared moles zingerman's sells: coloradito and negro, each at $15! for 8oz.

Ok, so maybe that's not an option

Amata wrote:

Vital Information wrote:I'm also off to Taqueria La Oaxecena to see if they'll part with some mole. If that's unsucessful, anyone ever "make" mole from the green powder sold around town? I tried doing it last year, mixing the mole powder with turkey stock but I cannot say I liked the results.

Rob

Hey Rob,

I hope you were able to get some mole to go from La Oaxaquena. If not...

I don't have any experience with prepared or powdered mole, but GREEN powder sounds all wrong for your turkey. As you know, there are lots of types of ground up stuff classified as mole, even guaca-mole, and the mole traditionally served with turkey is mole poblano, with a base of chiles anchos plus about 15 other ingredients. If you get something from a Mexican grocery store, I should think the jars of dark mole paste would do a better job.

Amata

You know, I punted. It did not look like we'd have time to get to TLO (although maybe lunch today...), so I got a jar of mole paste from a Mexican grocery. I got the El Popular brand, because, well not only did it have a cool looking label, the mole itself was also very visually appealing. Most important, El Popular did not have any artificial or un-natural flavors like some--no caramel color.

Now, why would you rule out the green mole powder per se? I do not think that green mole, for instance like we got at our LTH dinner in Joliet a few months ago, is that odd for turkey. I mean if it's good enough for chicken...

Or is it?

That said, I am still not 100% clear on mole prep. Many of the mole jars (most) had no cooking instructions, and some were flat out confusing. The instructions on the El Popular seem to call for the same amount of mole to stock whether using their bigger jar or their smaller jar of mole, i.e., both recipes called for 2 cups of stock to no distinguishable quantity of mole.

It seems that the standard is 1 to 1, mole paste to stock. But what about oil? The El Popular is oil free. Should I "fry" it first in a some canola oil?

Rob

Rob, you're absolutely right, green mole is served with poultry -- I think the first Diana Kennedy book has duck in green mole. (Don't I remember you saying you guys recently got one or more of Kennedy's books?) I guess my reaction against the green powder idea was in part that those green moles (as far as I know) depend a lot on fresh green stuff like cilantro and romaine lettuce leaves ground up in the mix, and a powdered version of that might not be so successful. But also I have the impression that turkey in mole poblano is considered appropriate for big holidays, e.g. for Christmas, so for a Thanksgiving turkey here mole poblano seems good too.

As for what to do with the jar of mole paste: as I said before, I haven't tried using these pastes myself. But I would look at Diana Kennedy or another source, and find the place in the recipe after you grind up everything in the blender and proceed from there. Probably (sorry, I'm away from the cookbooks at the moment) fry the paste in oil till it turns even darker, add some stock and let it cook down a bit.

rob, by weird coincidence (???) Bittmann had a recipe for "Turkey Ole" in today's NYT dining section

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/dining/24MINI.html
recipe: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/dining/241MREX.html

A little more work than a jar, but not a full blown five hour bayless mortar and pestle job either.

I would seriously recommend against the jar.. I probably tried every kind of canned mole when I was a poor grad student, and they are all pretty terrible.

Thanks for the great photos and turkey memories, gary!

Have a great thanksgiving, everybody!

Manning wrote:rob, by weird coincidence (???) Bittmann had a recipe for "Turkey Ole" in today's NYT dining section

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/dining/24MINI.html
recipe: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/dining/241MREX.html

A little more work than a jar, but not a full blown five hour bayless mortar and pestle job either.

I would seriously recommend against the jar.. I probably tried every kind of canned mole when I was a poor grad student, and they are all pretty terrible.

Thanks for the great photos and turkey memories, gary!

Have a great thanksgiving, everybody!

OK!

Well, we did make it to TLO, and I am damn glad we did (not the least for a delicious torta), but we procurred enough mole for a week's worth of leftover enchiladas. AND, and the mole is completely finished.

Thanks all! (Especially for all those linked FAQs and such, which came in handy, brine wise. I never knew about the air dry!)

Rob

OK... Bear with me... Brining my first turkey breast... I just removed it from the brine (4.5 lbs been in the brine since 10:45 am). Is the turkey supposed to look any different? I don't know... size, texture, etc?

C

Hi,

Visually it will be like a turkey just having had a bath.

Now, you rinse it thoroughly, dry it with paper towels. Put it in small pan lined with paper towels and lay the breast on a rack. If you don't have a rack, then make something with chopsticks (I know you have those) so the turkey isn't laying on the paper towels re-absorbing the moisture which is dripping off.

Now, You don't have to think about it until you plan to cook tomorrow.

Regards,

Great! Now I have to find my chopsticks... Just joking...

I rinsed and I have it on a rack in the fridge. Did not dry it off though since I assume 24 hours in the fridge will do...

What an eventful day... My pate failed miserably, sliced two fingers on my left hand on two occasins... sigh... At least I think the apple pie turned out ok... Except I forgot the butter, again...

I am hoping everyone else is having a better day...

Hi,

I just pulled the bird out of the brine. No easy task when the bird, the water and my brining container weighed over 50 pounds combined. I used the highly recommended Chez Panisse brine, which smells wonderful. It's now back in the refrigerator drying out for tomorrow's production.

I did make a delightful discovery: bonus tail! Yes, my bird coughed up a second tail piece. The pope's nose, the last bit over the fence or the tail is quite popular in my household. My Dad usually gets it because I am too busy coordinating dinner. This time, we each get the prize.

Regards,

Cathy,

I'm about 12 hours ahead of you. I'm cooking my bird overnight and packing it up and taking it to Michigan in the A.M. Mine has been sitting in the fridge and I just took it out. It's going to sit out for 1.5 - 2 hours and then it is going in the oven. Greek stuffing is made and is waiting to go in the bird right before the roasting begins.

Cathy2 wrote:The pope's nose, the last bit over the fence or the tail is quite popular in my household. My Dad usually gets it because I am too busy coordinating dinner. This time, we each get the prize.
Regards,

C2,

Elsewhere, Antonius has explained that the Italian dad usually gets the end of the filone. Others shun it; dad gets it as a prize. Who's fooling whom?

Hammond

Hammond wrote:Others shun it; dad gets it as a prize. Who's fooling whom?

Let's be truthful, we are very happy to extol on the unhealthiness of this particular morsel, while stealing it away for ourselves!

Another prime piece on the bird, the pair of 'oysters' on the back of the bird. They are shaped like oysters and are in pockets on either side of the backbone. I never knew what they were until I heard Julia Child pronounce them 'oysters.'

OUr turkey hits the oven sometime around 10-11. Much depends on when I get back from Great Lakes after picking up our pair of Sailors for the day.

Steve - have a safe trip! At least you didn't have to leave yesterday. I went out briefly, every stop activated the ABS.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Another point of view heard from about how to prepare the bird [and a pie crust method that I'll bet even Cathy2 hasn't tried yet.]

NYT article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/24/dining/24SCIE.html


Amazing how much reading I can get done on line when I go to work at 3:30 in the morning!

Giovanna

Hi,

Wow, thanks for pointing out this article.

NYT wrote:For example, although brining the turkey is now part of the Thanksgiving ritual for many cooks, Mr. McGee does not do it. "The bird does become juicier, but it's just absorbing tap water, not the true juices that make a bird flavorful," he said. "And the drippings become so salty that you can't use them." He says that his own experiments with turkey, though far from complete, show that drying the bird out, rather than infusing it with water, is more likely to make it flavorful and juicy with crisp skin. He unwraps his turkey a day or two before cooking, letting it air-dry in the refrigerator, and then cooks it at high temperature.

Yes, it is absorbing tab water though one that is flavored. It is no mistake most Turkey are injected with fluids. It is an effort to keep the breast meat moist when cooked too long to allow the dark meat to finish cooking. It is why my turkey is cooked almost to the end breast side down to cook the dark meat and retard the cooking of the breast. (It might be interesting to weigh the bird before and after brining. To measure the fluids before and after brining). My turkey finished to plump and juicy perfection yesterday in both the dark and white meats.

Yes, you do have to be careful of salty drippings. I will add more unsalted stock or cream to dilute the salty flavor. I can put up with this negligible problem for a better performing bird.

The worst bird I have had in many birds was simply relying on a Butterball. I used my high heat method, didn't brine and cooked it until the thermometer popped. Embarassing.

NYT wrote:The alluring scent of Maillard reactions filled the kitchen as Mr. McGee's pie crust began to brown. Although it is almost impossible to do anything truly new in the kitchen - as Mr. McGee notes, it often turns out that even the most complex flavor combinations were routinely used by Roman cooks - his pie crust method seems revolutionary. "The goal of pie crust is to create thin, even layers of fat and flour," he said. "That's what makes them flaky. But the usual method isn't really optimal for that."

Instead of using his fingers to rub globs of fat into flour, then dribbling in ice water, Mr. McGee starts with square chunks of cold butter and a pile of flour on a board. With a rolling pin he presses and rolls the butter into the flour, flattening it into thinner and thinner flakes. Occasionally he scrapes the mixture into a bowl and freezes it for five minutes, to keep the butter from melting. Since the gluten is not activated until the water is added, there is no worry about overworking the dough, even though the process can take some time.

Finally, to add the water Mr. McGee fetched a plant mister. "I always found it was hard to get the water evenly into the dough" he said. "So I measured how many sprays of the mister it takes to get half a cup of water - it's 150, by the way - and I use that to get uniform droplets." Now working quickly, he lightly squeezed the mister over the dough 50 times, then turned the dough and folded it. After two repetitions the dough just held together. He divided it into two round discs and returned it to the freezer.

Hours later his careful work paid off in a golden-brown crust of unspeakable flakiness and buttery flavor: Mr. McGee's method means that there is no need to add shortening to ensure a good texture.

Keeping butter cold is the secret. His method of incorporating butter into the dough is along the ideas of puff pastry, where you are repeatedly returning the dough to the refrigerator. I've even chilled my marble slab. His discussion somewhat parallels one had last week on making roti.

He is also right about the problems of evenly distributing the water. I use the full amount called for and scatter my distribution. I use as few strokes as possible to pull it all together, then use my hands to squeeze it together. In my very early days of making pie crust, I relied on the food processor. Over time, I came to the conclusion it introduced heat, it overworked the dough (no matter how quick you are at the switch) creating more negative influences than positive. I prefer to do it by hand, which is a fast and pleasant task.

Just for fun someday, I will use the rolling pin to incorporate the butter into the dough. I could see doing this in a large ziploc bag. I might even try the atomizer just for completeness.

Giovanna, thanks for pointing out this article. There are a few propeller heads in my life who would go to town with his analytical approach. I will not even point it out because they will drive their families nuts. Yes, I can be a friend.

I have a simple solution to the salty drippings problem. I just use about half as much salt as Cook's Illustrated recommends, I still get the juicy bird but it's not overly salty, and the drippings are just about perfect for use in gravy.

What's the Chez Panisse brining method, though?

Okay, the answer to my question: Chez Panisse brine.

It was the 150 squirts with the spray bottle that really did me in. Not 147, not 156, 150. Of course, does his obsession take into account what ever moisture is contained in the flour at any given time? Different, surely, in August than February. At least in this climate. And what happens if this spray bottle breaks and he as to get another one? Does it start all over again??

There are a few propeller heads in my life who would go to town with his analytical approach. I will not even point it out because they will drive their families nuts. Yes, I can be a friend.

...and there's a crown in heaven for you for this.

Giovanna

Giovanna wrote:And what happens if this spray bottle breaks and he as to get another one? Does it start all over again??

Any new atomizer or spray bottle will need calibration. I suggest you do enough squirts to reach 1/4 cup, then multiply! Of course, you cannot begin until you have done 5-10 squirts into the sink to fully charge the system; air bubbles will not do!

I guess over the years I have spent too much time with engineers and physicists.

"turkey, REALLY old-school" @ FoodNerd!

Okay, so I've read a couple of vague references to prepping the heritage turkey. Does this mean it's not going to come with its legs tucked in a skin flap and a pop-up thingy stuck in it? Seriously, what level of prep are we talking here?

Another thing I do at the recommendation of Cook's Illustrated, I microwave the stuffing and stuff it as hot as I can possibly tolerate. The reason for doing so is related to food safety and the length of time it takes for the stuffing to warm in traditional roasting methods.

I have never done another CI recommended idea, of putting the stuffing into a cheesecloth sack then inserting it into the turkey. I read the explanation several times and never felt compelled to follow it.

I do both these things and highly recommend them. The microwaving probably takes at least a half hour off the cooking time (and thus removes a half hour of breast drying time), while the cheesecloth bag means you just pull it out, easy as can be.

Just a quick general seconding of CI's methodology. Last year TODG and I bought a 20-lb free-range Bronze from a 4-H kid outside Whitewater. Followed CI's recommendations for prep and cooking to the letter.

Best damn turkey we've ever had in our lives, no lie.

Geo